Business owners against stronger CPP

Staff ~ The Telegram
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Canadian small business owners are largely opposed to a mandatory doubling of Canada Pension Plan premiums and benefits.
The Canadian Federation of Independent Business found that 71 per cent of members oppose the idea.
The proposal comes from the labour movement, which says that beefing up CPP will serve to make Canada's overall retirement system more stable.
Mayor Dennis O'Keefe supported the Canadian Labour Congress' calls for a stronger CPP this week.
"The mayor and others must understand the ramifications of the proposals on the small business community," said Bradley George, Newfoundland representative for the CFIB. "Business owners must be brought on board as willing participants, instead of being shoe-horned into a one-size fits-all scheme that could have serious negative effects on their businesses, and the economy overall."
The country's finance ministers will be discussing recommendations for ways to change the retirement system a their upcoming meeting on June 13.

Organizations: Canadian Federation of Independent Business, Canadian Labour Congress

Geographic location: Canada, Newfoundland

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  • Brad
    July 02, 2010 - 13:34

    If business life is so tough, and getting a high paying job is easy why would you own a small business, you sir are the genius. Coda prices go up regardless of wage/tax increases it is called inflation. You are 2 people I'd never work for, whining about a position you got yourself into.

  • baie boy
    July 02, 2010 - 13:34

    Of course Dennis O'Keefe favours this. He already drawing from NL's biggest sink hole, the teachers pension plan. Then he will draw from the taxpayer funded council pension plan. The man has lived off the taxpayer all his life.

  • Donna
    July 02, 2010 - 13:31

    Robb and Coda, I'm sorry to hear that you're in such dire circumstances, especially you, Robb with your workers biting your mouth (that must be painful and inconvenient!). And Coda; really? REALLY? The underwaged are responsible for poverty??? If you can't pay your workers a fair wage do you really have any business being in business. Perhaps you need to realise that your enterprises are failing. With all due respect, perhaps you should pack up and get one of those many jobs Robb is talking about.

  • jim
    July 02, 2010 - 13:30

    Hey Robb and Coda, I would like to work for you guys, because I have been working sense i was 16 and all that time CPP contributions came out of MY earnings as a deduction. What do you guys contribute to it???? Although, by the sounds of it you two must have a pretty good turn over of staff, with your attituds.

  • Craig
    July 02, 2010 - 13:28

    What people fail to comment on is the fact that CPP is in trouble now with current payments. Just to make the program survive the CPP contributions would have to double just to be able to maintain the levels they are paying out now.

    Our population is getting older and more money is coming out of CPP each year than is going in.

    If we want to double the size of what people get we would have to probably quadruple the contributions.

  • Anon
    July 02, 2010 - 13:22

    I have a small business in town, and one of our issues is the lack of education wrt to applicants. Now we're seasonal and need new staff each year, but honestly it can become difficult finding professional people (especially for a shorter time period).

    As to minimum wage - we don't pay close to that, and pay a bonus for completing a season, but sometimes it seems tough to find people who are willing to work their tail off, and try to better themselves as well. (I think we would be better off if we could go year round - but I'm hesitant to take the monetary hit)... Like most other small business owners - when we make bad decisions we go bankrupt - hard to feed the family that way. Never mind our decisions affect not just ourselves but our employees too.

    Donna - I think you have it wrong - when I read it - Coda is saying that you don't get $1 out for every $1 you put in for CPP, so really adding more money to it makes you poorer. (albeit the plan is to have future generations pay for what you take out anyways). At the end of the day - if paying you $40,000 (your take home) costs me $65,000 instead of $60,000 (totally made up figures), I'm going to start trying to pay you $35,000 because you're still only worth $60,000 based on my income off of your work. Don't forget you get an extra 4% (minimum) vacation pay, and there's the EI contribution, CPP contribution that the business owner has to pay, never mind WHSCC (which business owners pay on their own earnings - even though if they ever had to collect - their businesses would go under anyways, so it's a waste of money + better used to invest elsewhere - we have to pay around 3%), then there are additional benefits, insurance etc, which you may not see.

    A couple thoughts - Property prices have gone up 50% in 6 years, millrates should be down 50% as services haven't noticeably changed. (not counting what should be 1-offs ie water treatment plant).

    We would be better off if there was no taxation below the poverty line. $7800 (NL allowable amount is far too low, 13k Federal amount is too low too)

    NL still needs more additional businesses, tourism and population to help businesses operate year long - the way to get there is education however, and there seems to be a professionalism gap between HS education, College, and University (regardless of age). Ideally it would just be an educational (field of study) difference.

  • Robb
    July 02, 2010 - 13:18

    Hey Brad....the only thing I can think of is genius ...how did you figure that one out........of course business owners are complaining......obvious that you do not have you own small business.....these small business owners struggle far more than the workers they hire.....they have no set hours and probably work 60 - 80 hours a week.....I know because I see it. That being said, the jokers at the various labour federation find it real easy to say hey, raise the wages..??..raise the pension contributions..!! .....easy when it is not their dollar....they are so worried about what people get, they should pay them themselves....that would change their tune real quick.... Talk about taking the bite out of small business owners mouths (which is common union slang)....and the labour jokers get to take the paycheck home at 4:30 in the day, long before the small business owner can go home. You jokers make me sick. I say, never mind controls on wages...you don't like the pay rate at a particular job, go find another....certainly don't have govt shove this down the throats and on the backs of small business owners who are taking all the risks!

  • Brad
    July 02, 2010 - 13:17

    Are these the same business owners who also complain about the minimum wage being raised? Do they want people to be poor their whole life slaving to make the business a dollar and to retire poor also?

  • coda
    July 02, 2010 - 13:09

    Brad, you must not understand the ramifications for the small business person. This doubling is no small pocket change and it will transfer into higher prices for the goods and services, in which, then I will see you complaining about the cost of everything.

    It's hard as a business person, but it's gonna be harder on the average person's budget when they have to pay new price for these goods and services.

    In reality, those minimum wage earners will lose all monetary gains thru the higher prices, thus we are still back to square one and it undermines the goal of reducing poverty in Canada.

  • Brad
    July 01, 2010 - 20:24

    If business life is so tough, and getting a high paying job is easy why would you own a small business, you sir are the genius. Coda prices go up regardless of wage/tax increases it is called inflation. You are 2 people I'd never work for, whining about a position you got yourself into.

  • baie boy
    July 01, 2010 - 20:23

    Of course Dennis O'Keefe favours this. He already drawing from NL's biggest sink hole, the teachers pension plan. Then he will draw from the taxpayer funded council pension plan. The man has lived off the taxpayer all his life.

  • Donna
    July 01, 2010 - 20:20

    Robb and Coda, I'm sorry to hear that you're in such dire circumstances, especially you, Robb with your workers biting your mouth (that must be painful and inconvenient!). And Coda; really? REALLY? The underwaged are responsible for poverty??? If you can't pay your workers a fair wage do you really have any business being in business. Perhaps you need to realise that your enterprises are failing. With all due respect, perhaps you should pack up and get one of those many jobs Robb is talking about.

  • jim
    July 01, 2010 - 20:18

    Hey Robb and Coda, I would like to work for you guys, because I have been working sense i was 16 and all that time CPP contributions came out of MY earnings as a deduction. What do you guys contribute to it???? Although, by the sounds of it you two must have a pretty good turn over of staff, with your attituds.

  • Craig
    July 01, 2010 - 20:16

    What people fail to comment on is the fact that CPP is in trouble now with current payments. Just to make the program survive the CPP contributions would have to double just to be able to maintain the levels they are paying out now.

    Our population is getting older and more money is coming out of CPP each year than is going in.

    If we want to double the size of what people get we would have to probably quadruple the contributions.

  • Anon
    July 01, 2010 - 20:06

    I have a small business in town, and one of our issues is the lack of education wrt to applicants. Now we're seasonal and need new staff each year, but honestly it can become difficult finding professional people (especially for a shorter time period).

    As to minimum wage - we don't pay close to that, and pay a bonus for completing a season, but sometimes it seems tough to find people who are willing to work their tail off, and try to better themselves as well. (I think we would be better off if we could go year round - but I'm hesitant to take the monetary hit)... Like most other small business owners - when we make bad decisions we go bankrupt - hard to feed the family that way. Never mind our decisions affect not just ourselves but our employees too.

    Donna - I think you have it wrong - when I read it - Coda is saying that you don't get $1 out for every $1 you put in for CPP, so really adding more money to it makes you poorer. (albeit the plan is to have future generations pay for what you take out anyways). At the end of the day - if paying you $40,000 (your take home) costs me $65,000 instead of $60,000 (totally made up figures), I'm going to start trying to pay you $35,000 because you're still only worth $60,000 based on my income off of your work. Don't forget you get an extra 4% (minimum) vacation pay, and there's the EI contribution, CPP contribution that the business owner has to pay, never mind WHSCC (which business owners pay on their own earnings - even though if they ever had to collect - their businesses would go under anyways, so it's a waste of money + better used to invest elsewhere - we have to pay around 3%), then there are additional benefits, insurance etc, which you may not see.

    A couple thoughts - Property prices have gone up 50% in 6 years, millrates should be down 50% as services haven't noticeably changed. (not counting what should be 1-offs ie water treatment plant).

    We would be better off if there was no taxation below the poverty line. $7800 (NL allowable amount is far too low, 13k Federal amount is too low too)

    NL still needs more additional businesses, tourism and population to help businesses operate year long - the way to get there is education however, and there seems to be a professionalism gap between HS education, College, and University (regardless of age). Ideally it would just be an educational (field of study) difference.

  • Robb
    July 01, 2010 - 20:00

    Hey Brad....the only thing I can think of is genius ...how did you figure that one out........of course business owners are complaining......obvious that you do not have you own small business.....these small business owners struggle far more than the workers they hire.....they have no set hours and probably work 60 - 80 hours a week.....I know because I see it. That being said, the jokers at the various labour federation find it real easy to say hey, raise the wages..??..raise the pension contributions..!! .....easy when it is not their dollar....they are so worried about what people get, they should pay them themselves....that would change their tune real quick.... Talk about taking the bite out of small business owners mouths (which is common union slang)....and the labour jokers get to take the paycheck home at 4:30 in the day, long before the small business owner can go home. You jokers make me sick. I say, never mind controls on wages...you don't like the pay rate at a particular job, go find another....certainly don't have govt shove this down the throats and on the backs of small business owners who are taking all the risks!

  • Brad
    July 01, 2010 - 19:57

    Are these the same business owners who also complain about the minimum wage being raised? Do they want people to be poor their whole life slaving to make the business a dollar and to retire poor also?

  • coda
    July 01, 2010 - 19:45

    Brad, you must not understand the ramifications for the small business person. This doubling is no small pocket change and it will transfer into higher prices for the goods and services, in which, then I will see you complaining about the cost of everything.

    It's hard as a business person, but it's gonna be harder on the average person's budget when they have to pay new price for these goods and services.

    In reality, those minimum wage earners will lose all monetary gains thru the higher prices, thus we are still back to square one and it undermines the goal of reducing poverty in Canada.