There was a time when we used to have international credibility as a country. In fact, it used to be something that you could - and would - wear on your sleeve.
In the 1970s and 1980s, Canadians abroad sewed Canadian flags to their sleeves or their backpacks - in part to differentiate them from our American neighbours, but also to cash in on the generally high esteem that Canada was held in.
We were a nation of peacekeepers, a nation that supported foreign democracies and that was well known for caring enough to find homes for displaced refugees. We were known for our socialized medical system and for our mediating influence on other nations far and wide. We were often the trusted go-between in international negotiations, and we were generally held as a country worth living in, a country that understood international responsibilities.
We helped, and we were known for helping.
It didn't matter whether the government was Pearson's or Trudeau's, Diefenbaker's or Chretien's or Mulroney's: the Canadian government built itself a reputation abroad, and developed and nurtured that reputation with peacekeeping missions and international aid.
Now, it seems that instead of helping, we hinder.
Instead of peacekeeping, we are actually fighting in a war. (Not only that, but anyone who questions that war can look forward to being subjected to the jingoistic tarring of being someone who "doesn't support our troops.")
Instead of being a country that trumpets the need for human rights, we negotiate increased trade with countries with poor human rights records.
We turn a wilfully blind eye to our own troops handing over prisoners - not necessarily even enemy combatants, as much as individuals who should be questioned - to a regime that we are aware uses methods of torture in interrogations.
And on the environment, one area where we used to lead, we're now held up as global scofflaws.
As national leaders gathered in Copenhagen last week to talk about realistic ways to cut emissions and slow global warming, as a nation, we were much more interested in finding ways to protect our largest polluters, most notably the development of the Alberta tar sands.
Forget the huge amounts of water and fuel needed to get fossil fuels out of the tar sands; forget the impact that pollution may have on us and on others. It's full-speed ahead to defend economic growth in Western Canada. It was a point that was not lost on delegates from other countries, and one that should not be lost on our own government. We once led, then we followed, and now, in Christmas week, we're merely dogs in the manger.
Earlier this week, columnist Richard Gwyn pointed out in the Toronto Star and in this paper that we have lost our way and our role internationally.
He's right.
The sad part is that it is taking only a few minority governments under Prime Minister Stephen Harper to destroy an international reputation that it took governments of many political stripes years to build.
It's a very sad state of international affairs.
Our name is mud
There was a time when we used to have international credibility as a country. In fact, it used to be something that you could - and would - wear on your sleeve.
In the 1970s and 1980s, Canadians abroad sewed Canadian flags to their sleeves or their backpacks - in part to differentiate them from our American neighbours, but also to cash in on the generally high esteem that Canada was held in.
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Comments
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- Richard
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:35:41
More leftest rants from a leftest rag. Canada still contributes to peace keeping missions on a regular basis, during our peace keeping missions to the Balklands, we regularly shot back and carried out combat missions. Instead of blaming everything on Harper, it was the Liberal Martin government that got us there in the first place, Harper is getting us out in 2011. As for handing over prisoners, we treat them a hell of a lot better than they deserve, especially when they strap bombs to handicap kids as a way of fighting back. Do you think we can just close down the tar sands? What do you think that would do to our economy?
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- Donald P
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:35:40
don from Newfoundland and Labrador writes: Peter MacKay has no concerns about our army transferring Afghan prisoners to extremist Afghan Government agents who tortured them in contravention of the Geneva Convention. Don, those poor Taliban that you sympathize with, have killed over a hundred of Canadian soldiers, they have thrown acid on little school girls and blinded them. These pitiful Taliban threatens a mans family causing suicide bombings of innocent people no different than you or your family. It may be a sin for me to think this way, but the hell with these Taliban murderers, I don't care what the Afghanistan people do to them. What would you do if acid was thrown on a little girl, exactly? Are you a man or a mouse, fo christ sake.
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- Politically Incorrect
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:34:16
Agreed. Unfortunately Harper knows that all he has to do is pander to the racists, xenophobes, the ignorant, the wealthy, the warmongers, and the greedy -- a sector of the population that, while it is a minority, is large enough to give him a government perhaps even a majority. Ignatieff isnt much better.
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- MJ
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:33:50
Harpers dream of making Canada a copy of the USA and his lack of leadership is most certainly the cause for all of this. This is a well written editorial; however most of the admiration Canada did receive was as a result of our liberation efforts in WWII. Global warming is a huge bluff, any one with a knowledgeable brain could see that, but we are polluting our plant, the plant we need to sustain life. So, if the worlds fear of global warming can right some of the wrongs and reduce our destruction of this plant, I am all for it. What I do find amazing is that Newfoundland is trying to develop the Lower Churchill to provide Canada and the USA with Hydro Electricity, which is extremely clean, when you look at energy sources and Mr. Harper is not smart enough to jump on the band wagon. He could support the development and could have used it in Copenhagen to show how Canada is moving in the right direction and while he is at, allow free access for clean energy through all provinces. I wonder, if Quebec proposed something like the Lower Churchill, how long do you think it would take the Federal government to throw money into it??? Merry Christmas Too All!!!
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- dennis
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:32:35
Why is it that most people identify themselves or the reputation of the country based on the military? Canada's reputation is based on its standard of living, its well-educated citizens, the decorum with which most of these same citizens act when they are abroad or at home. Canada is viewed as a multicultural country that offers opportunities to most, if not all of its peoples. And it is RICH, has a health care system, social security and so on and so forth. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you see things) most of these advantages came about because of its natural resources. That Canada's role in the recent Copenhagen meetings was less than graceful goes without saying. But, in order to maintain the standard of living that Canadians have come to regard as their right more natural resources have to be exploited - to the detriment of the environment without doubt. As the Cree saying goes; Only when they have posioned the last river, cut the last tree and caught the last fish will they realise that they can't eat money. Yet, this extraction of natural resources is what is paying for your ski doo, your quad, the two suv's in the garage of your 3000 sq ft house, your health care system, your nice roads, and on and on. From my perspective as a Canadian living in Europe, most people don't care if Canada has troops in any country. They are sorry for those who have died or been injured in somebodies stupid war, but they certainly don't judge the country has a whole on that. Constantly going back to the argument of the military is simple evidence that you have no other arguments.
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- Yes
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:32:11
In the 1970s and 1980s, Canadians abroad sewed Canadian flags to their sleeves or their backpacks - in part to differentiate them from our American neighbours, but also to cash in on the generally high esteem that Canada was held in.---------------------------This is a very different world that we know now. The days of the 70-80's are over and so are the values which were the crux of our being. Today, is laced with intolerance, hate, deception, and greed.......our values of self esteem have been watered down to reflect the rest of worlds corruption. We are not an island onto ourselves, rather a melting pot of, religion, customs, mind set, teachings and dogma......we have become puppets, attached to some very influential players on the world stage.....we are now 'westerners', of dubious character...with dubious intent...The liberation of Holland and Europe is long over and so is our identity.....
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- john
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:31:25
David from St.john's,I am so sorry that my misspelling of a certain word has upset you.The rude remarks from you,do not upset me. I totally believe that the war on terror is justified.A man convinced his will is of the same opinion still.God bless our soldiers in Afghanistan.From my home to your David a very Merry Christmas.
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- Sue
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:31:23
I think Chris from B.C. has real close Liberal ties, maybe Chris is an elected Liberal MP, who is writing here under an alias.
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- Sean
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:30:47
Ask the 7 million children (up from 1 million all male) that are now going to school in Afghanistan if we are hindering. Or the villagers of hundreds of villages there that now have clean water. Or perhaps the millions that now have access to health care?
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- Richard
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:30:43
To Chris from BC:I'm certainly sorry about being such a moron and being a right winger.The Balklands is where I was injured or is Yugo a better term for you. Merry Christmas.
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- Donald P
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:30:38
Thank you don from Newfoundland and Labrador, I appreciate your kind response and I also respect what you are trying to convey. I am worried about the media the opposition party are creating. The media are reporting the story as if the Government intended for torture. You and I know this is a false insinuation. The Taliban and Al Qaeda are reading this and using this as propaganda against coalition forces. The detainee agreement was implemented by the previous Government, without taking the Geneva Convention into consideration. Today's Government has made allot of implementations that has changed the Afghanistan jails. The opposition is only playing political games, at the expense of our soldiers . The case should be closed, kept quiet, I have all the faith that the Canadian government and soldiers had and have the right intentions.
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- Darrell
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:30:02
Our name is MUDD only in the socialist realm, failed political activists want you me and everyone else in Canada to pay out $3000.00 each to help Al Gore and the UN to distribute wealth. Obama has copied our targets and he is considered a savior. Happy partisanship liberal lovers, don't bother to open your eyes, just give it all away.
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- Eugene
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:27:48
I know it's been said, but gone are the days that North American tourists plastered Canadian Maple Leaf flags on their back packs when travelling abroad in hopes of not being taken as (US of) Americans. Not that Harper hasn't goose-stepped to the Bushian beat, but it was Paul Martin (Chretien?) who committed Canadian troops to their first combat role since the Korean War. Mind, it was Stephen Harper who put the symbolic nail in Canadian Peacekeeping when he blamed Cdn blue beret's for their own deaths during the Israeli invasion of Lebannon in 2006.
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- agree with history
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:27:37
I agree, the historic and revered aspect of Canada's reputation dates back to the World Wars for many European countries. Great comment Euroguy.
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- Bill
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:27:28
Oh for a return to The Telegram of the Herder Family. This column is a clear illustration and demonstration of the left wing garbage of current management and editorial content of The Telegram. It is the no accountability, no responsibility drivel of editors who have little better to do than pitch and witch about everything manifested in common sense. When are the people of Newfoundland going to insist on the return of a credible and integrity based newspaper?
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- Enough with the
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:27:01
Bob, you need to seal your Seal crying up in a jar. If it is such a great product, then market to your neck of the woods. What is different here with China not being able to send us dog and cat meat? Ya, thought so you would cry a mighty storm up over that import now wouldn't you! We do not control nor can we dictate what other countries purchase just as they can not dictate or control what we purchase. Get over it.
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- EuroGuy
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:24:23
Being born in Europa and growing up there in the 70's and 80's, I can assure you that Canadians were not loved in Europe because of peacekeeping missions. Canadians were, and are, held in very high respect especially in those parts of Europe that Canadian soldiers liberated during World War 2. So it's the fighting record of Canada that gives it that huge amount of respect, not peace keeping. Please do a bit more research before just jumping on some other newspapers bandwagon.
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- David
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:23:30
Euroguy, I think you dove a little too deep into the details of this column. The point of the column was that Canada had a reputation for helping others, and if I may add this, also for selflessness in the way it approached world affairs. I lived in Washington for a number of years and know this is how the Americans viewed us. You are correct that we built our reputation by fighting nazis in europe, but we also built it by peacekeeping in other parts of the world. The unifying aspect of those two approaches, among others, was that we generally took a selfless approach to how we dealt with the wider world. Unfortunately, as the column states, we have begun to take a more selfish approach in the past few years and the chickens are now coming home to roost.
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- John
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:22:45
Peace is not gained without pain and suffering.It is far better to fight foes like the Taliban in Afghanistan than on the streets of Canada.This editorial is concerned about abuse of Taliban prisoners,I am more concerned about the beheading of prisoners by the Taliban.We cannot competuate to terrorism.Any and all who join any army do so with the understanding that they may have to lay their life on the line.The fight againt terror/tyrants must not be left to armchair editorial writers.
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- Juno
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:22:09
John, your knowledge of the Afghan conflict and your blind acceptance of the so-called war on terror is... well... a tribute to your obedience.
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- Paul
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:21:46
I think you have to remember that we have a fighting army, not a peacekeeping army, although it does some of the latter. The reason we were in Europe was to fight the Russians if they ever attacked. That's why we had tanks, not pillows. Of course we also fought Hitler and North Korea. Canada stands up militarily when it has to!! Also don't forget that it was the Liberals who signed Kyoto and then for 12 years did nothing, as they always do. This left Harper and Canada with no way out. You liberals are too quick to join the criticism of Canada instead of supporting her and questioning the critics. Also China and the States pollute way more and China doesn't want any restrictions on its emissions. The tar sands may not be pretty but they actually produce less than one tenth of a percent of greenhouse gases, while Canada as a whole emits two percent. Check out Lorrie Goldstein's column about Canada is Not a Climate Villain and a few others. Fortunately Harper and clan didn't get sucked into the Copenhagen foolishness like you have. If the Liberals were in charge they would be as apologetic as yourself and burdened Canadians with a huge debt and a future of increasing poverty, while the rest of the world laughs its way to the bank. Check out the other side of the arguments sometime.
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- Darrell
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:21:29
Hey Chris from B.C. we got a old saying here in Nova Scotia, if you peee in the wind you are going to get full of peee. Grow up you sook.
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- Bob Kieley
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:20:48
And what thanks did the Europeans give us for the hundreds of thousands of graves scattered all over their lands? They banned the importation of Canadian seal products. Thanks a lot.
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- David
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:20:04
In case you missed it, my point is that history has many examples where people from one area helped people from another, and this 'help' can also be interpreted in many different ways. But if you're going to claim that we helped someone (i.e. the Dutch) to be free, then allow them to make their own decisions.........
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- Bob Kieley
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:19:26
Enough (already) with the seals! More PETA propaganda. Stay on the topic.
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- George
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:19:13
What absolute nonsense in this editorial . Typical left-wing socialist cr@p.
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- Chris
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:18:20
To 'Richard from NL'. Where are these 'Balklands' that you speak of? Were we fighting the 'Balklanese', or are they called 'Balklanders'? Would it be close to 'Eye-rak' or 'Eye-ran'? You right-wingers crack me up. All we can do anymore, is just laugh at you ignorant, blind, right-wing-nut fools. Intelligent Canadians see you as you are, complete morons.
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- Daid
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:17:37
Richard from NL .....Yugo? Oh, you must have been referring to the BALKANS, not the Balklands...... Sorry to hear about your injury while serving over there. Based on that and your earlier description of that mission, it sounds as though peacekeeping is not so different from actual combat (such as Canada is doing in Afghanistan). And given that observation, I'd say its quite likely that Canada's peacekeeping operations over the years have helped build our reputation just like the times when we fought in declared wars to help liberate other people. Oh by the way, my next door neighbor's brother was killed in Bosnia on a peacekeeping operation (he was killed by an anti-tank mine), so I know the peacekeepers who went there put it all on the line. Thanks for your service, and sacrifice.
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- Chris
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:17:16
Bill from MB writes: 'This column is a clear illustration and demonstration of the left wing garbage of current management and editorial content of The Telegram.' What do you suggest, Bill? That they parrot the right-wing garbage spewed by Harper's propaganda machine? You also write: 'It is the no accountability, no responsibility drivel of editors who have little better to do than pitch and witch about everything manifested in common sense.' Do you know what an 'editorial' is, Bill? The most common definition is: 'An article in a publication expressing the opinion of its editors or publishers. So, what you're saying Bill, if YOU, or any of your right-wing ilk, don't like, or agree, with an editorial's content, then it becomes: 'no accountability, no responsibility drivel'? You know, Bill, you remind me of another poster, on another site, who stated he got all the news he needed from, get this, flyers (junk mail) being sent out by the CPC. Maybe you should try that one Bill. If you had the occasion to travel outside of MB (another country) you would realize most of what was editorialized, is true. You also write: 'When are the people of Newfoundland going to insist on the return of a credible and integrity based newspaper?' Insist? Surely you jest. Do you mean, Bill, a 'credible and integrity based newspaper', like The National, a mouthpiece for the Harper 'dog and pony show' No, seriously Bill, I really do think you should get your news from CPC flyers. That way you'd have nothing to whine about, and you'd be more like the rest of the right-wingers, REALITY CHALLENGED.
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- Chris
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:17:15
To Darrell from Nova Scotia. Your inane comments never cease to amaze me. Our name is 'MUDD', Darrell from Nova Scotia, on account of people like you, who are on the side of anything anti-environmental, and tend to parrot Conservative, and Faux News talking points, instead of educating themselves on the real issues, with information from a wide variety of sources. Aren't Conservatives ignorant enough already? Ignorance, Darrell from Nova Scotia, (and perhaps your other brother 'Darrell') is not a positive. As to your comment 'Happy partisanship liberal lovers'. Liberals really bother you, don't they Darrell from Nova Scotia? And why? Because, they are unlike you Conservatives, who believe everyone is as vicious, cruel and selfish as they are. You know, Darrell from Nova Scotia, there's an old saying in this part of BC: 'When stupid people are facing their own stupidity, they just get more stupid.'
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- David
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:17:05
John from nfld/bc....... We cannot competuate to terrorism. Huh? John, we can't COMPETUATE to anybody......because THAT'S NOT A REAL WORD! The word you were looking for is capitulate..... I normally don't attack what people say like this, but there's a reason why you don't understand the link between OUR people being involved in abuse / torture and the enemy performing torture on innocents or even our own soldiers. Your poor grasp of the english language hints at the reason...... The principle against torture is this: when we (i.e. Canada) torture we lose our moral standing and then have no right to tell anyone (even the Taliban) that they should not torture. I agree with you that we should fight the Taliban, but we should do it honorably. And when we interact with the world on other issues (like the environment, etc.), we should use the interests of everyone (not just ourselves) to guide our actions. As the column states, that's the way we will get true respect from others, and be able to make a real impact in the world. With all our advantages, I'm sure Canada will still do fine economically.
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- Taxpayer ll
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:14:00
I wonder if the parents of the dead Canadian men and women, who bravely gave their lives to help the people of Afganistan think they were ...hindering, not helping.
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- Gordon
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:13:31
I wouldn't say that Canada's name is mud , however, Canada's attempt to be a middle power starting the Suez Canal Crisis in 1956 up the war in Yugoslavia seems to have come to an end. I don't care much for the current Canadian government, but Canadian-style peacekeeping, which earned it some respect as a so-called middle power, doesn't seem to work in the post cold war era. Canada, like many other countries, will have to find its place in the world. Canada would have to do lot worse to be mud .
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- wayne
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:13:13
Much of what was said is true. We are better liked by the Americans because we of our role in Afghanistan but that has had the opposite effect in much of the rest of the world. I personally think that much of the global warming hysteria is produced by the same sort of folks who protest the seal hunt.............but Canada overall has a poor environmental record. The maple leaf pin is no longer as welcome as it used to be in Europe. Politically I lean to the left but we can't blame this change on Mr. Harper and his little band of neo-cons. People elected them so that's what they must want. If we want change; the ballot box is the place to make your wishes known.
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- don
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:11:58
The normally intuitive Canadian voter has delivered our once great country into the hands of neo-conservative right wing Canadian Republican extremists. Stephen Harper thinks that global warming is a liberal conspiracy to frighten away the people who buy Alberta oil. Peter MacKay has no concerns about our army transferring Afghan prisoners to extremist Afghan Government agents who tortured them in contravention of the Geneva Convention. No wonder Canada's once stellar international image has been badly tarnished! Harper and his gang of neo-conservative right wing Canadian Republicans don't see anything wrong with continuing George W. Bush's extremist right wing Republican agenda. Just look where it led the USA! Where is Canada's Obama?
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- don
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:11:20
To Donald P. from Nova Scotia: Do not mistake my civility as weakness my friend! I have no sympathy for the Taliban. I deplore their evil tactics and denounce their medieval religious zealotry. If I were in a position to order military action against them, there would be no limit to the bombardment that I would unleash on them. However, if we do not abide by the rules of war we cannot expect the Taliban or any other enemy to abide by any rules of war or even consider giving the least bit of compassion to any of OUR Soldiers whom they may capture. Treat others as you want to be treated or at least try to be the better man. Do you want OUR captured soldiers to be tortured or killed Donald? Wake up man, take the high ground for once!
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- Chris
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:10:20
George from Alberta writes: What absolute nonsense in this editorial . Typical left-wing socialist cr@p. George, I would rather be classed as a 'Typical left-wing socialist cr@p', any day of the week, than to be classed as an inbred, hillbilly, right-wing, redneck Albertan. You remind me of an old Frank Zappa song from the LP 200 Motels. Lonesome Cowboy Burt. My name is Burtrum, I am a redneck All my friends, they call me Burt All my family down here in Alberta (I'm paraphrasing here George, since Alberta likes to bill itself as Texas North) Make their living digging dirt.
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- anthony
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:10:18
Purile rubbish.Please have at least a bit of informed writing in your paper.
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- Chris
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:10:10
Sue Power from NL writes: I think Chris from B.C. has real close Liberal ties, maybe Chris is an elected Liberal MP, who is writing here under an alias. Well, thank you Sue, for the compliment, but you're wrong. I am actually apolitical, at this juncture, as I am disillusioned with all of our political parties, except I do have utter contempt for the social policies of the CPC. I guess, when anyone decries homophobia, intolerance and mean-spiritness, you automatically think Liberal. I am liberal, which is not necessarily Liberal. Actually, Sue, I am a retired Radio Officer, who's being around the world more times than you have gone to the bathroom, and I always wore my little Canadian flag emblem, or clothing with a Canadian place name and/or maple leaf on it. I also read a lot, and discovered the Telegram, in 1986, in port in St. John's, and although, I don't check the site, religiously, I do, from time to time, check out the 'Letters to the Editor' and 'Editorial' pages. I don't always agree, and have made my opinions known, but not in the context of some of the posters, on this site, supposedly from NS, MB, and AB, although the latter two provinces, do harbour a good supply of right-wing-nuts. As to 'writing here under an alias', the moderator has my E-mail address, which has my name on it, and my IP number will verify I am in BC. By the way Sue Power, you wouldn't happen to be related to that blowhard buffoon CPC propagandist, Tim Power, would you? No need to answer though, I'm not interested. It was more of an observation.
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- Justin
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:09:59
EuroGuy got it right. And I would add that Copenhagen showed that the Canadian approach was the correct one after the say one thing, do another reality of Kyoto. Measurable incremental change is Harper's credo. Norman Spector at the G&M did a review of the British papers post Copenhagen and there was no negative commentary on Canada whatsoever. The protests, like the green forest Liberal ad campaign, just did not resonate. The tar sands represent 4% of Canada's emissions. An Canada represents 2% of the world's emissions. As regards the Star/LPC's spin that Canada is punching below its weight on the world stage, that would have been more true during the infamous decade of darkness. Canada has gained respect internationally in the past few years, not lost it. Ask American Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal. Canada is playing an important role in a changing world in the tradition of Pearson's support fro NATO. Here's a reminder of what Afghanistan was like at the time of 9-11: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1410061.stm Peacekeeping and international aid are no more noble or Nobel than the sacrifice required to make them possible in the first stance.
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- Richard
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:25:55
More leftest rants from a leftest rag. Canada still contributes to peace keeping missions on a regular basis, during our peace keeping missions to the Balklands, we regularly shot back and carried out combat missions. Instead of blaming everything on Harper, it was the Liberal Martin government that got us there in the first place, Harper is getting us out in 2011. As for handing over prisoners, we treat them a hell of a lot better than they deserve, especially when they strap bombs to handicap kids as a way of fighting back. Do you think we can just close down the tar sands? What do you think that would do to our economy?
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- Donald P
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:25:53
don from Newfoundland and Labrador writes: Peter MacKay has no concerns about our army transferring Afghan prisoners to extremist Afghan Government agents who tortured them in contravention of the Geneva Convention. Don, those poor Taliban that you sympathize with, have killed over a hundred of Canadian soldiers, they have thrown acid on little school girls and blinded them. These pitiful Taliban threatens a mans family causing suicide bombings of innocent people no different than you or your family. It may be a sin for me to think this way, but the hell with these Taliban murderers, I don't care what the Afghanistan people do to them. What would you do if acid was thrown on a little girl, exactly? Are you a man or a mouse, fo christ sake.
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- Politically Incorrect
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:23:24
Agreed. Unfortunately Harper knows that all he has to do is pander to the racists, xenophobes, the ignorant, the wealthy, the warmongers, and the greedy -- a sector of the population that, while it is a minority, is large enough to give him a government perhaps even a majority. Ignatieff isnt much better.
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- MJ
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:22:42
Harpers dream of making Canada a copy of the USA and his lack of leadership is most certainly the cause for all of this. This is a well written editorial; however most of the admiration Canada did receive was as a result of our liberation efforts in WWII. Global warming is a huge bluff, any one with a knowledgeable brain could see that, but we are polluting our plant, the plant we need to sustain life. So, if the worlds fear of global warming can right some of the wrongs and reduce our destruction of this plant, I am all for it. What I do find amazing is that Newfoundland is trying to develop the Lower Churchill to provide Canada and the USA with Hydro Electricity, which is extremely clean, when you look at energy sources and Mr. Harper is not smart enough to jump on the band wagon. He could support the development and could have used it in Copenhagen to show how Canada is moving in the right direction and while he is at, allow free access for clean energy through all provinces. I wonder, if Quebec proposed something like the Lower Churchill, how long do you think it would take the Federal government to throw money into it??? Merry Christmas Too All!!!
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- dennis
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:21:28
Why is it that most people identify themselves or the reputation of the country based on the military? Canada's reputation is based on its standard of living, its well-educated citizens, the decorum with which most of these same citizens act when they are abroad or at home. Canada is viewed as a multicultural country that offers opportunities to most, if not all of its peoples. And it is RICH, has a health care system, social security and so on and so forth. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you see things) most of these advantages came about because of its natural resources. That Canada's role in the recent Copenhagen meetings was less than graceful goes without saying. But, in order to maintain the standard of living that Canadians have come to regard as their right more natural resources have to be exploited - to the detriment of the environment without doubt. As the Cree saying goes; Only when they have posioned the last river, cut the last tree and caught the last fish will they realise that they can't eat money. Yet, this extraction of natural resources is what is paying for your ski doo, your quad, the two suv's in the garage of your 3000 sq ft house, your health care system, your nice roads, and on and on. From my perspective as a Canadian living in Europe, most people don't care if Canada has troops in any country. They are sorry for those who have died or been injured in somebodies stupid war, but they certainly don't judge the country has a whole on that. Constantly going back to the argument of the military is simple evidence that you have no other arguments.
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- Yes
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:20:58
In the 1970s and 1980s, Canadians abroad sewed Canadian flags to their sleeves or their backpacks - in part to differentiate them from our American neighbours, but also to cash in on the generally high esteem that Canada was held in.---------------------------This is a very different world that we know now. The days of the 70-80's are over and so are the values which were the crux of our being. Today, is laced with intolerance, hate, deception, and greed.......our values of self esteem have been watered down to reflect the rest of worlds corruption. We are not an island onto ourselves, rather a melting pot of, religion, customs, mind set, teachings and dogma......we have become puppets, attached to some very influential players on the world stage.....we are now 'westerners', of dubious character...with dubious intent...The liberation of Holland and Europe is long over and so is our identity.....
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- john
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:19:55
David from St.john's,I am so sorry that my misspelling of a certain word has upset you.The rude remarks from you,do not upset me. I totally believe that the war on terror is justified.A man convinced his will is of the same opinion still.God bless our soldiers in Afghanistan.From my home to your David a very Merry Christmas.
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- Sue
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:19:52
I think Chris from B.C. has real close Liberal ties, maybe Chris is an elected Liberal MP, who is writing here under an alias.
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- Sean
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:18:51
Ask the 7 million children (up from 1 million all male) that are now going to school in Afghanistan if we are hindering. Or the villagers of hundreds of villages there that now have clean water. Or perhaps the millions that now have access to health care?
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- Richard
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:18:45
To Chris from BC:I'm certainly sorry about being such a moron and being a right winger.The Balklands is where I was injured or is Yugo a better term for you. Merry Christmas.
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- Donald P
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:18:36
Thank you don from Newfoundland and Labrador, I appreciate your kind response and I also respect what you are trying to convey. I am worried about the media the opposition party are creating. The media are reporting the story as if the Government intended for torture. You and I know this is a false insinuation. The Taliban and Al Qaeda are reading this and using this as propaganda against coalition forces. The detainee agreement was implemented by the previous Government, without taking the Geneva Convention into consideration. Today's Government has made allot of implementations that has changed the Afghanistan jails. The opposition is only playing political games, at the expense of our soldiers . The case should be closed, kept quiet, I have all the faith that the Canadian government and soldiers had and have the right intentions.
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- Darrell
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:17:37
Our name is MUDD only in the socialist realm, failed political activists want you me and everyone else in Canada to pay out $3000.00 each to help Al Gore and the UN to distribute wealth. Obama has copied our targets and he is considered a savior. Happy partisanship liberal lovers, don't bother to open your eyes, just give it all away.
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- Eugene
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:15:31
I know it's been said, but gone are the days that North American tourists plastered Canadian Maple Leaf flags on their back packs when travelling abroad in hopes of not being taken as (US of) Americans. Not that Harper hasn't goose-stepped to the Bushian beat, but it was Paul Martin (Chretien?) who committed Canadian troops to their first combat role since the Korean War. Mind, it was Stephen Harper who put the symbolic nail in Canadian Peacekeeping when he blamed Cdn blue beret's for their own deaths during the Israeli invasion of Lebannon in 2006.
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- agree with history
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:15:13
I agree, the historic and revered aspect of Canada's reputation dates back to the World Wars for many European countries. Great comment Euroguy.
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- Bill
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:14:57
Oh for a return to The Telegram of the Herder Family. This column is a clear illustration and demonstration of the left wing garbage of current management and editorial content of The Telegram. It is the no accountability, no responsibility drivel of editors who have little better to do than pitch and witch about everything manifested in common sense. When are the people of Newfoundland going to insist on the return of a credible and integrity based newspaper?
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- Enough with the
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:14:20
Bob, you need to seal your Seal crying up in a jar. If it is such a great product, then market to your neck of the woods. What is different here with China not being able to send us dog and cat meat? Ya, thought so you would cry a mighty storm up over that import now wouldn't you! We do not control nor can we dictate what other countries purchase just as they can not dictate or control what we purchase. Get over it.
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- EuroGuy
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:10:01
Being born in Europa and growing up there in the 70's and 80's, I can assure you that Canadians were not loved in Europe because of peacekeeping missions. Canadians were, and are, held in very high respect especially in those parts of Europe that Canadian soldiers liberated during World War 2. So it's the fighting record of Canada that gives it that huge amount of respect, not peace keeping. Please do a bit more research before just jumping on some other newspapers bandwagon.
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- David
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:08:36
Euroguy, I think you dove a little too deep into the details of this column. The point of the column was that Canada had a reputation for helping others, and if I may add this, also for selflessness in the way it approached world affairs. I lived in Washington for a number of years and know this is how the Americans viewed us. You are correct that we built our reputation by fighting nazis in europe, but we also built it by peacekeeping in other parts of the world. The unifying aspect of those two approaches, among others, was that we generally took a selfless approach to how we dealt with the wider world. Unfortunately, as the column states, we have begun to take a more selfish approach in the past few years and the chickens are now coming home to roost.
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- John
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:07:18
Peace is not gained without pain and suffering.It is far better to fight foes like the Taliban in Afghanistan than on the streets of Canada.This editorial is concerned about abuse of Taliban prisoners,I am more concerned about the beheading of prisoners by the Taliban.We cannot competuate to terrorism.Any and all who join any army do so with the understanding that they may have to lay their life on the line.The fight againt terror/tyrants must not be left to armchair editorial writers.
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- Juno
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:06:15
John, your knowledge of the Afghan conflict and your blind acceptance of the so-called war on terror is... well... a tribute to your obedience.
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- Paul
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:05:37
I think you have to remember that we have a fighting army, not a peacekeeping army, although it does some of the latter. The reason we were in Europe was to fight the Russians if they ever attacked. That's why we had tanks, not pillows. Of course we also fought Hitler and North Korea. Canada stands up militarily when it has to!! Also don't forget that it was the Liberals who signed Kyoto and then for 12 years did nothing, as they always do. This left Harper and Canada with no way out. You liberals are too quick to join the criticism of Canada instead of supporting her and questioning the critics. Also China and the States pollute way more and China doesn't want any restrictions on its emissions. The tar sands may not be pretty but they actually produce less than one tenth of a percent of greenhouse gases, while Canada as a whole emits two percent. Check out Lorrie Goldstein's column about Canada is Not a Climate Villain and a few others. Fortunately Harper and clan didn't get sucked into the Copenhagen foolishness like you have. If the Liberals were in charge they would be as apologetic as yourself and burdened Canadians with a huge debt and a future of increasing poverty, while the rest of the world laughs its way to the bank. Check out the other side of the arguments sometime.
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- Darrell
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:05:05
Hey Chris from B.C. we got a old saying here in Nova Scotia, if you peee in the wind you are going to get full of peee. Grow up you sook.
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- Bob Kieley
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:03:48
And what thanks did the Europeans give us for the hundreds of thousands of graves scattered all over their lands? They banned the importation of Canadian seal products. Thanks a lot.
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- David
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:02:33
In case you missed it, my point is that history has many examples where people from one area helped people from another, and this 'help' can also be interpreted in many different ways. But if you're going to claim that we helped someone (i.e. the Dutch) to be free, then allow them to make their own decisions.........
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- Bob Kieley
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:01:27
Enough (already) with the seals! More PETA propaganda. Stay on the topic.
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- George
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:01:01
What absolute nonsense in this editorial . Typical left-wing socialist cr@p.
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- Chris
- - July 1st, 2010 at 19:59:37
To 'Richard from NL'. Where are these 'Balklands' that you speak of? Were we fighting the 'Balklanese', or are they called 'Balklanders'? Would it be close to 'Eye-rak' or 'Eye-ran'? You right-wingers crack me up. All we can do anymore, is just laugh at you ignorant, blind, right-wing-nut fools. Intelligent Canadians see you as you are, complete morons.
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- Daid
- - July 1st, 2010 at 19:58:23
Richard from NL .....Yugo? Oh, you must have been referring to the BALKANS, not the Balklands...... Sorry to hear about your injury while serving over there. Based on that and your earlier description of that mission, it sounds as though peacekeeping is not so different from actual combat (such as Canada is doing in Afghanistan). And given that observation, I'd say its quite likely that Canada's peacekeeping operations over the years have helped build our reputation just like the times when we fought in declared wars to help liberate other people. Oh by the way, my next door neighbor's brother was killed in Bosnia on a peacekeeping operation (he was killed by an anti-tank mine), so I know the peacekeepers who went there put it all on the line. Thanks for your service, and sacrifice.
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- Chris
- - July 1st, 2010 at 19:57:43
Bill from MB writes: 'This column is a clear illustration and demonstration of the left wing garbage of current management and editorial content of The Telegram.' What do you suggest, Bill? That they parrot the right-wing garbage spewed by Harper's propaganda machine? You also write: 'It is the no accountability, no responsibility drivel of editors who have little better to do than pitch and witch about everything manifested in common sense.' Do you know what an 'editorial' is, Bill? The most common definition is: 'An article in a publication expressing the opinion of its editors or publishers. So, what you're saying Bill, if YOU, or any of your right-wing ilk, don't like, or agree, with an editorial's content, then it becomes: 'no accountability, no responsibility drivel'? You know, Bill, you remind me of another poster, on another site, who stated he got all the news he needed from, get this, flyers (junk mail) being sent out by the CPC. Maybe you should try that one Bill. If you had the occasion to travel outside of MB (another country) you would realize most of what was editorialized, is true. You also write: 'When are the people of Newfoundland going to insist on the return of a credible and integrity based newspaper?' Insist? Surely you jest. Do you mean, Bill, a 'credible and integrity based newspaper', like The National, a mouthpiece for the Harper 'dog and pony show' No, seriously Bill, I really do think you should get your news from CPC flyers. That way you'd have nothing to whine about, and you'd be more like the rest of the right-wingers, REALITY CHALLENGED.
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- Chris
- - July 1st, 2010 at 19:57:42
To Darrell from Nova Scotia. Your inane comments never cease to amaze me. Our name is 'MUDD', Darrell from Nova Scotia, on account of people like you, who are on the side of anything anti-environmental, and tend to parrot Conservative, and Faux News talking points, instead of educating themselves on the real issues, with information from a wide variety of sources. Aren't Conservatives ignorant enough already? Ignorance, Darrell from Nova Scotia, (and perhaps your other brother 'Darrell') is not a positive. As to your comment 'Happy partisanship liberal lovers'. Liberals really bother you, don't they Darrell from Nova Scotia? And why? Because, they are unlike you Conservatives, who believe everyone is as vicious, cruel and selfish as they are. You know, Darrell from Nova Scotia, there's an old saying in this part of BC: 'When stupid people are facing their own stupidity, they just get more stupid.'
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- David
- - July 1st, 2010 at 19:57:25
John from nfld/bc....... We cannot competuate to terrorism. Huh? John, we can't COMPETUATE to anybody......because THAT'S NOT A REAL WORD! The word you were looking for is capitulate..... I normally don't attack what people say like this, but there's a reason why you don't understand the link between OUR people being involved in abuse / torture and the enemy performing torture on innocents or even our own soldiers. Your poor grasp of the english language hints at the reason...... The principle against torture is this: when we (i.e. Canada) torture we lose our moral standing and then have no right to tell anyone (even the Taliban) that they should not torture. I agree with you that we should fight the Taliban, but we should do it honorably. And when we interact with the world on other issues (like the environment, etc.), we should use the interests of everyone (not just ourselves) to guide our actions. As the column states, that's the way we will get true respect from others, and be able to make a real impact in the world. With all our advantages, I'm sure Canada will still do fine economically.
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- Taxpayer ll
- - July 1st, 2010 at 19:52:36
I wonder if the parents of the dead Canadian men and women, who bravely gave their lives to help the people of Afganistan think they were ...hindering, not helping.
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- Gordon
- - July 1st, 2010 at 19:51:42
I wouldn't say that Canada's name is mud , however, Canada's attempt to be a middle power starting the Suez Canal Crisis in 1956 up the war in Yugoslavia seems to have come to an end. I don't care much for the current Canadian government, but Canadian-style peacekeeping, which earned it some respect as a so-called middle power, doesn't seem to work in the post cold war era. Canada, like many other countries, will have to find its place in the world. Canada would have to do lot worse to be mud .
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- wayne
- - July 1st, 2010 at 19:51:04
Much of what was said is true. We are better liked by the Americans because we of our role in Afghanistan but that has had the opposite effect in much of the rest of the world. I personally think that much of the global warming hysteria is produced by the same sort of folks who protest the seal hunt.............but Canada overall has a poor environmental record. The maple leaf pin is no longer as welcome as it used to be in Europe. Politically I lean to the left but we can't blame this change on Mr. Harper and his little band of neo-cons. People elected them so that's what they must want. If we want change; the ballot box is the place to make your wishes known.
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- don
- - July 1st, 2010 at 19:48:53
The normally intuitive Canadian voter has delivered our once great country into the hands of neo-conservative right wing Canadian Republican extremists. Stephen Harper thinks that global warming is a liberal conspiracy to frighten away the people who buy Alberta oil. Peter MacKay has no concerns about our army transferring Afghan prisoners to extremist Afghan Government agents who tortured them in contravention of the Geneva Convention. No wonder Canada's once stellar international image has been badly tarnished! Harper and his gang of neo-conservative right wing Canadian Republicans don't see anything wrong with continuing George W. Bush's extremist right wing Republican agenda. Just look where it led the USA! Where is Canada's Obama?
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- don
- - July 1st, 2010 at 19:47:44
To Donald P. from Nova Scotia: Do not mistake my civility as weakness my friend! I have no sympathy for the Taliban. I deplore their evil tactics and denounce their medieval religious zealotry. If I were in a position to order military action against them, there would be no limit to the bombardment that I would unleash on them. However, if we do not abide by the rules of war we cannot expect the Taliban or any other enemy to abide by any rules of war or even consider giving the least bit of compassion to any of OUR Soldiers whom they may capture. Treat others as you want to be treated or at least try to be the better man. Do you want OUR captured soldiers to be tortured or killed Donald? Wake up man, take the high ground for once!
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- Chris
- - July 1st, 2010 at 19:46:16
George from Alberta writes: What absolute nonsense in this editorial . Typical left-wing socialist cr@p. George, I would rather be classed as a 'Typical left-wing socialist cr@p', any day of the week, than to be classed as an inbred, hillbilly, right-wing, redneck Albertan. You remind me of an old Frank Zappa song from the LP 200 Motels. Lonesome Cowboy Burt. My name is Burtrum, I am a redneck All my friends, they call me Burt All my family down here in Alberta (I'm paraphrasing here George, since Alberta likes to bill itself as Texas North) Make their living digging dirt.
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- anthony
- - July 1st, 2010 at 19:46:13
Purile rubbish.Please have at least a bit of informed writing in your paper.
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- Chris
- - July 1st, 2010 at 19:45:57
Sue Power from NL writes: I think Chris from B.C. has real close Liberal ties, maybe Chris is an elected Liberal MP, who is writing here under an alias. Well, thank you Sue, for the compliment, but you're wrong. I am actually apolitical, at this juncture, as I am disillusioned with all of our political parties, except I do have utter contempt for the social policies of the CPC. I guess, when anyone decries homophobia, intolerance and mean-spiritness, you automatically think Liberal. I am liberal, which is not necessarily Liberal. Actually, Sue, I am a retired Radio Officer, who's being around the world more times than you have gone to the bathroom, and I always wore my little Canadian flag emblem, or clothing with a Canadian place name and/or maple leaf on it. I also read a lot, and discovered the Telegram, in 1986, in port in St. John's, and although, I don't check the site, religiously, I do, from time to time, check out the 'Letters to the Editor' and 'Editorial' pages. I don't always agree, and have made my opinions known, but not in the context of some of the posters, on this site, supposedly from NS, MB, and AB, although the latter two provinces, do harbour a good supply of right-wing-nuts. As to 'writing here under an alias', the moderator has my E-mail address, which has my name on it, and my IP number will verify I am in BC. By the way Sue Power, you wouldn't happen to be related to that blowhard buffoon CPC propagandist, Tim Power, would you? No need to answer though, I'm not interested. It was more of an observation.
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- Justin
- - July 1st, 2010 at 19:45:38
EuroGuy got it right. And I would add that Copenhagen showed that the Canadian approach was the correct one after the say one thing, do another reality of Kyoto. Measurable incremental change is Harper's credo. Norman Spector at the G&M did a review of the British papers post Copenhagen and there was no negative commentary on Canada whatsoever. The protests, like the green forest Liberal ad campaign, just did not resonate. The tar sands represent 4% of Canada's emissions. An Canada represents 2% of the world's emissions. As regards the Star/LPC's spin that Canada is punching below its weight on the world stage, that would have been more true during the infamous decade of darkness. Canada has gained respect internationally in the past few years, not lost it. Ask American Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal. Canada is playing an important role in a changing world in the tradition of Pearson's support fro NATO. Here's a reminder of what Afghanistan was like at the time of 9-11: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1410061.stm Peacekeeping and international aid are no more noble or Nobel than the sacrifice required to make them possible in the first stance.
