Paradise and St. John’s are getting closer than ever

Steve
Steve Bartlett
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A proposed subdivision on the edge of Elizabeth Park (centre) would straddle the boundary between Paradise and St. John’s. — Screenshot courtesy Google Earth

A large Paradise subdivision could soon spill over into St. John’s.

Paradise Properties Ltd. is proposing a residential development that would extend Elizabeth Park over the town’s boundaries and into the capital city.

Of the 250 homes in the preliminary plan, 170 would be in St. John’s.

The houses and streets would only be accessible through Paradise, and staff from the municipalities are trying to hammer out a services arrangement.

It would see St. John’s collecting taxes from residents within its boundaries and then paying Paradise to provide them with services such as garbage collection and snowclearing.

“We’re working out the details,” Paradise Mayor Ralph Wiseman said. “It’s premature to comment on it any more than that.”

Tom Hann, the St. John’s councillor who heads the city’s planning and housing committee, said the proposed development is a good example of how regional co-operation can work.

“We’re hoping that we can reach some sort of agreement,” he said, adding he’d like this development to prompt more co-operation between metro area municipalities.

Developments that transcend municipal borders are relatively rare.

The Brookfield Plains subdivision on the old Sprung Greenhouse property is often cited as an example, but that development is entirely in St. John’s. However, It can only be accessed through Mount Pearl.

The Telegram was unable to contact anyone at Paradise Properties Ltd.

sbartlett@thetelegram.com

Twitter: @SteveBartlett_

Organizations: Paradise Properties Ltd.sbartlett

Geographic location: Elizabeth Park

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Recent comments

  • Mike Walsh
    September 19, 2012 - 14:57

    The council and Wiseman in particular are an embarrassment. Always letting developers get their way. So what happens when they can’t put enough land in Paradise? They get some from St. John’s. Thank goodness these lackies will be gone in a year. Good riddance. Thanks for ruining our town.

  • Enough
    September 19, 2012 - 14:06

    4 words...Get Rid of Wiseman!

  • Ryan
    September 19, 2012 - 12:47

    Dont you hate pants

  • Turry from town
    September 19, 2012 - 12:20

    John! You poor poor man.Do you think for one minute people are going to believe that you passby stores in your own town to soend money in St.John's?If you do do it is because you can't get it in your own town,so being close to a place where you can is a benifit for you.And buying a coffee at Tim's does not count. Stores set up here because of the population in SJ.We can do fine on our own and don't need outsiders.people who pay taxes are the ones who keep the city going.Kent for example is not setting up in CBS and closing in St.John's.This is evidence of how towns around SJ are growing,but you still come here to work and use our services and pay nothing.

  • John
    September 19, 2012 - 12:02

    I wonder did anybody ever stop and see how much money the people living outside the city spend and leave in the city. I personally do my grocery shopping buy my gas (about 90%) , go to my dentist, family doctor and drugstore; all in St. John's and sometimes the hardware stores like Kent or Home Depot. I am just one of thousands that comute from outside the city and leave probably 75% or more of my wages in the city. Some of the stores and services in St. John's would probably have to close shop due to work shortages if workers were banned or charged a head tax from working there for example like there was talk of a few years ago. People should look at the good from all us people from outside the city and commute into the city.

  • John Lenin
    September 19, 2012 - 10:20

    Sorry for the inaccurate comment Peter ... have researched a little and you are right about the margin by which Paradise won the early-90s poll to absorb Elizabeth Park. That said, I used to rnjoy living in Paradise a LOT more, years ago before suburban growth took off like an un-checked cancer ... the Outer Ring Road was the start of end of the peace and quiet! LOL! The main artery road / traffic light infrastructure thru the town does need a serious look-at though ... the congestion is ridiculous ... maybe if Topsail Rd. were a true 4-lane highway it would help?

  • Robb
    September 19, 2012 - 09:50

    St. John's should extend from Holyrood to Ferryland to Cape St. Francis.....yes, I said it........look at all of the waste with so much administration........the entire north eastern tip of the Avalon should be one city.....everyone pays the same, and pays your own share......none of this living outside the city but using all the amenities of the city.......now of course this range I mentioned will not cover everyone who work in St. John's, but it will get most.........one administration can work........of course you will get the naysayers with the anti-amalgamation saying that it does not work, but that is just bull.......Halifax has done it on April 1, 1996 when they created the Halifax Regional Municipality....of course there were ups and downs to it, but generally it was good for everyone.......of course the most oposition to this was the people living outside the city, but sitll using the city........

  • lived in paradise a long time
    September 19, 2012 - 09:29

    well let me start there is nothing wrong with Paradise i have lived there 30 plus years for those who dont want to live in Paradise thats find dont move to paradise . I dont want to amalgamate with St.John's or Mt. Pearl . and as for traffic every town or city has it at rush hour . I lived in Mt. Pearl and i got out of there very quick all you here in Mt. Pearl is the Police, Ambulance and Fire trucks .

    • Robb
      September 19, 2012 - 10:06

      Hey "Lived in Paradise a long time".....every town has the traffic at rush hour.....absolutely, but that Topsail Road is just plain crazy, at MOST times of the day.....I lived in Paradise in the 80s when there was no traffic light at the bottom of Paradise road, and it was just a nightmare in the morning trying to get on Topsail Rd, and the problems having only increased with the increase of population in Paradise........I got out of there, just like you suggested, and went to downtown St. John's where I enjoy the beautiful Bannerman park, and Oh, I pay my way....not like you hangashores.......

  • Paradise Resident
    September 19, 2012 - 08:58

    I have been a resident of Paradise for 15 years, however for the first time since moving here, I am considering selling my house and moving elsewhere. There is nothing "pretty" about this town anymore and the TRAFFIC is horrendous. They have crammed in as many houses as possible...all feeding off of Topsail Road. One road cannot support the amount of familes in the area. For any familes considering purchasing property in Paradise, I would urge you to first try and navigate through Paradise any morning or afternoon...any time for that matter. I am embarrassed to say I live in Paradise because I am usually greeted with a sympathic reaction.

  • Lily Smith
    September 19, 2012 - 08:54

    I live in Paradise, it takes anywhere from 10-20 mins to get to work where it should be 5 mins. We are jamed in like sardines. We don't have a fire station...ambulance service...we don't have a decent grocery store. NO Frills? Yes they have lots of frills, frilly food with mold. Our propery taxes or what-ever.is going to increase 40-4+++% more? Where are us poor folks going to come up with that kind of $$$$$? It's due time for someone to step up to the plate and take better care us....or do we have to wait for the voting season again...promise this promise that, in the end we are promised to send out money we take from our table to make someone else rich.

    • PETER
      September 19, 2012 - 11:43

      LILY SMITH; Wher on earth did you ever get the idea that taxes were going up 40% or more. That is totally false, assessed values will be going up to reflect the actual market value of homes, the base year used is 2011, meaning that would have been the value in 2011. Council has already stated that the mill rate will be rolled back. The town cannot open a supermarket or any other business for that matter, only a busines can do that, how can you blame the council for that. A fire station and ambulance service comes with a price, and the Paradise council is looking at that as well, but it takes time and money, and if you didn't know it, provincial approval too. Council applied for a seperate fire service back in '92 after amalgamation and was turned down because there is a regional fire service in place, and Paradise is forced into this. Hopefully the town will eventually get this service, but there is more to it than meets the eye. Lily, like too many here, you make uninformed comments, I'm amazed at all the untrue statements made here, false statements and pure lies. Does anyone look into anything before they comment?

  • PETER
    September 19, 2012 - 08:51

    JOHN SMITH, so far about 18,000 people have wanted to live in Paradise, and the demand is growing. We don't need amalgamation, every time an area gets sucked in by St. John's, taxes go up and services go down.

  • Downtownie
    September 19, 2012 - 08:50

    Once again the scholars in the city planning dept come up with a stupid idea, fully supported by the shadey contractors who build all these junk houses, charge a fortune, and claim a fraction of their income. Mortgage rates are gonna rise and then what's gonna happen to all the new home owners who can't afford their payments? The City should recognize this and not support it.

  • PETER
    September 19, 2012 - 08:50

    JOHN SMITH, so far about 18,000 people have wanted to live in Paradise, and the demand is growing. We don't need amalgamation, every time an area gets sucked in by St. John's, taxes go up and services go down.

  • Turry from town
    September 19, 2012 - 08:31

    Just another good reason for amalgamation,Paradise is becoming another MP.Cling on to the border of St.John's to be close enough for work and all amenities,yet far enough not to have to pay taxes in St.John's for all the services they use and consume. The problem is,communities are exploding on the border of St.John's and trying to connect into infastructure to get there.What needs to happen is to amalgamate these towns with the city and have a unified developement plan for proper infastructure for the whole region,not you shovel my driveway and I will shovel yours,lets shovel both. It would be alot better and efficient for the provincial government to say enough is enough,SJ MP P you are now one city if you want provincial money to beinvested,and all the people pay the same taxes,than to try and divy up the pie to a bunch of towns.And money would be saved when alot of these towns nolonger have a municipal government needlessly sucking money to pay for seperate councils.

  • Paradise Resident
    September 19, 2012 - 08:30

    Instead of more over crowded subdivisions, I think Mayor Wiseman should be thinking of placing a Fire Station in Paradise. There have been far too many fires in Paradise that have destroyed home because it took 20 mins to St. John's Central Station to respond. THAT is ridiculous! Where I am in Paradise, I'll be watching my home burn to the ground while waiting for authorities to arrive....WAKE UP MR. WISEMAN!

  • G
    September 19, 2012 - 08:12

    The problem with traffic in Paradise is the Topsail Road/Outer Ring lights. If lights within the Metro area were managed more effectively then there would be less traffic problems. I am not going to name the City, but other Canadian metropolitans adjust the length of the green lights depending on traffic demands. Logic would suggest that the green lights should be longer for traffic flowing into the City in the morning, then longer for traffic flowing out in the evening. It is embarassing, and it is not just Topsail Road in Paradise. Ever drive Torbay Road/Kenmount Road during rush hour?

  • John Smith
    September 19, 2012 - 08:10

    Mount Pearl, Paridise, are ficticious names, a business scam to let people live in St.John's without paying their fair share...

    • dan
      September 19, 2012 - 11:10

      Ah John Smith, the wise scholar who belittles his neighbors. No wonder why people choose to live outside of SIN JAWNS with idiots like you living there.

  • Jon
    September 19, 2012 - 07:15

    When are Paradise going to stop building houses and start putting some other services in the town. Other than houses and your beautiful new industrial park stradling your nice pond, there is nothing there. Can that section of Topsail Road handle any more traffic? It's a nightmare trying to get through there at supper time.

  • fred
    September 19, 2012 - 07:12

    st.john's is bursting at the seams for land and st.john's is doing this deal??!!..please!!...either paradise disappears or st.john's grows to take over this land!!.. if paradise thinks it can grow into this city it had better goddamned wake up!!!

    • Jon
      September 19, 2012 - 07:25

      St. John's is bursting at the seams for land?? Think you have that wrong, St. John's has plenty of land to expand.

    • PETER
      September 19, 2012 - 08:54

      FRED, another uninformed opinion. As stated there will be another regional cooperation in this deal, that is where all this is going, not amalgamation, and regionalization is working. Study it, look into it rather than make uninformed opinions.

    • Jason
      September 19, 2012 - 09:45

      St. John's needs to open it's eyes and realize that they cannot continue to build OUT but instead build UP. There's no more land to get, we can't make any more. sotp destroying the wilderness and build a couple high rises FFS. Condos and apartments are all you see in "real" cities, but for some reason it's unacceptable in this province to live in an apartment/condo.

  • Sherrieo
    September 19, 2012 - 07:03

    Who in their right mind would want to move there...to me if you can t provide the services you don't expand. If the people have to pay St. John's taxes..St. john's should be snowclearing and garbage collecting as well...it makes no sense to do this..People will not want to live in homes where it is split like that...:( I think St. John's is horrible at expansion if this is all they can come up with...This is why i refuse to live in St. John's...sticking with Mount Pearl..

  • John Lenin
    September 19, 2012 - 07:02

    The Elizaabeth Park subdivision was administered by Metro Board for several years after I moved there back in the late 80's. Sometime during the early 90's Metro Board was dissolved and E.P. residents were polled to see which town they'd like to join; Mount Pearl or Paradise ... Paradise won out by a narrow margin ... and Paradise has grown far too large to support itself efficiently. The past several years, I have noticed a significant decline in the frequency of snowclearing and a HUGE increase in the volume of traffic along Topsail Rd. which results in gridlock during rush hour. Maybe this new "cooperation" between Sin Jawns and Pair-a-Dice should include the development of a new by-pass Road linking Kenmont Rd. to Topsail Rd. west of Trails End? Otherwise, more growth in the area will result in more pain for residents ...

    • PETER
      September 19, 2012 - 08:47

      To John Lennon, you are dead wrong, Paradise won out by a huge margin. Man I just get so tired of uneducated and incorrect facts. I was part of the amalgamation process back then, it was almoist 90% in favor of Paradise.

  • John Smith
    September 19, 2012 - 06:59

    Enough is enough.Time to amalgamate this mess into one city. Who'd want to live in Paradise anyway? A waste of space filled with traffic,sudivisions and strip malls.