The City of St. John's has done a donut - a complete circle, to those who don't joy ride - on its drive-thru moratorium.
Council voted unanimously Monday to lift the temporary ban on new drive-thrus it put in place exactly two weeks before.
The decision followed a meeting between councillors and representatives from Tim Hortons. It was made as a contingent of the restaurant's management and franchisees sat in the public gallery.
"We made a lot of strides today. And a lot of the issues ... with safety, due to traffic queuing up on public highways, are certainly going to be met head-on both by the owners and by the corporation," Mayor Dennis O'Keefe said before the motion to axe the moratorium.
Council implemented the freeze on drive-thrus Jan. 5 out of concerns that lineups spilling onto roads were safety hazards.
It said it would not approve any new drive-thrus unless a proponent could assure the problem wouldn't exist or a solution was found that rectified the problem altogether.
The decision - which originated from concerns about a Tim Hortons on Topsail Road, but quickly had councillors noting the problem at other sites where the coffee and donut chain operated - made headlines across the province and country when numerous municipalities said they were grappling with the same problem.
It also prompted one organization, the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, to say the moratorium sent the message St. John's wasn't business friendly.
But the plans Tim Hortons presented to council Monday were enough to satisfy council and get the ban lifted.
O'Keefe outlined some of the measures the company intends to take to keep the lineups from extending onto the roads.
Included were land acquisitions to increase the drive-thru capacity, changing traffic patterns on parking lots, and doubling up lineups at some sites.
Tim Hortons had been working on the plan for a year and a half, said Deputy Mayor Ron Ellsworth.
A number of councillors praised the chain and city staff for the quick response to the issue.
Even though the moratorium received unanimous support 14 days ago, some council members expressed concern the ban might have been premature, that the city should have met with the company before passing the motion.
Ellsworth said the moratorium may have actually made it more difficult for Tim Hortons to adjust and realign drive-thrus.
Putting pressure on the company publicly, he explained, might have made its business case tougher and increased the difficulty it might face in acquiring property from adjacent landowners.
Not everyone shared the view that council jumped the gun with the moratorium.
Some felt the motion was a catalyst for quick action on the problem.
"This was our way of drawing attention to a very important public safety issue," said Coun. Art Puddister.
"I'm cautiously optimistic we're going to solve this problem."
sbartlett@thetelegram.com
St. John's council lifts drive-thru moratorium
A Tim Hortons owner leaves the weekly meeting of St. John's city council after it rescinded its moratorium on drive-thrus in the city. - Photo by Keith Gosse/The Telegram
- Published on January 20th, 2009
- Published on July 1st, 2010
-
Steve Bartlett
The Telegram
Municipal
The City of St. John's has done a donut - a complete circle, to those who don't joy ride - on its drive-thru moratorium.
Council voted unanimously Monday to lift the temporary ban on new drive-thrus it put in place exactly two weeks before.
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Comments
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- Murf
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:32:47
Hey Tim Hortons and Staff! Thanks for such wonderful coffee and services. You shine! And without you we'd be back to boring old instant with a top-up of the old chlorine! Yep, all we're lacking is to add a crankier St. John's to our distinction. Truth is, you deserve more respect in the industry and I believe we should put up a toll gate and reward your effort with generosity, appreciation and tips. Now as for traffic problems, ask an expert - the former mayor as surely that was a priority for Mile One? Bouquet Tim Hortons - hang in there!
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- Wayne
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:31:55
I sometimes wonder if its the drive thru's being the problem or the people who park into the main highway waiting to get a small coffee (regardless if its just black or a double double) If a person needs that cup of coffee to function, and especially Tim Horton's I think they should start looking at themselves because that intense need for Tim's is not worth the risk of getting injured or worse because something plows into you because your vehicle is stuck into a main roadway trying to get into the parking lot
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- AnnD
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:31:29
You'll have to go back a long way on Council to blame all the idiots who passed the drive thrus. They all overflow at lunchtime. Council should have made a change to the code long before this.
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- steve
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:30:16
RON ELLSWORTH FOR MAYOR.......Lets dump Okeefe....he's too lame for the job!
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- vipor
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:30:11
tim horton rules american company win again
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- Rich
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:29:32
To vipor maddox from holyrood: Tim Horton was born in Ontario, and it is a Canadian Company.......
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- Sandy
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:25:55
What a joke this Mayor O'keefei s...get some balls and mamage the city. The majority of taxpayers agreed with your decision, and then you backed away. Isn't that what any business is suppose to do, provide a plan as to how it will effect the pubic traffic etc???
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- Mark
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:25:28
One of my biggest pet peeves is waiting in line, whether it be in a drive thru, drug store, atm, bank etc.
WRT to this issue, I see a few ideas where customers can be re-educated on drive thru ettiquette because obviously some Joe Six Packs in this town have gotten lazy.
1 - Charge for orders over a certain quantity. You order 8 coffees,6 bagels (2 requiring to be toasted), sorry you should be required to pay a drive thru penalty on making not only the Tim Horton's employees rush their job, but for wasting the time of everyone else.
2 - Any store with a drive thru should start refusing drive thru service on large orders. Instead, the customer should be told, park your car and come inside.
A drive thru was invented for convenience not so the Joe Office worker or Sally the lonely housewife can go and clog it up with large orders. -
- What A
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:25:02
Ya know, nine times outta ten when needing to drop the other half off at work in the mornings, she needs her fix. I refuse to sit in a line for twenty min. I have seen the store empty and 15 to 20 cars sitting in line.
It is far quicker service inside then out. You really have to wonder what people are thinking when they see others parking, getting the Joe to go and are long gone while they sit and fume.
The fact that City Hall is turning into the new home of the catch phrase Flip-Floppers. Wonder how all the other cities see the great city of St. Johns after this about face? How much credit for a stand was just flushed into the St. Johns Harbour?
Hate to be the one fending the phone lines at city hall today.
Best thing out of this will be that they know will see that the $100.00 snow tickets will be gone just as fast since not one has any back-bone when they come up with anything in chamber. -
- Fedup
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:22:19
Rich from NL writes: To vipor maddox from holyrood: Tim Horton was born in Ontario, and it is a Canadian Company.......
---------
Rich, Tim Hortons was bought out by Wendy's back in 1995 so it was not a Canadian Company after that. In 2005 Wendy's did an IPO for Tim Hortons and made 18% of the company public. -
- jake
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:18:33
@ anna
so a great improvement at the Harvey Road location warrants a congrats to council for solving what huge problem? The one at Harvey Road? I can count at least 5 - 6 other locations where they still have problems, came across two this morning on my way to work, still spilling into the road -
- anna
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:18:03
I have noticed a great improvement at the Harvey Road location, since this issue has been bought up by council. The Harvey Road location is no longer a menace in the mornings. Congratulations to Council for finally getting this huge problem solved.
-
- what a dough dough
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:17:18
Okeefe reminds me of the guy who breaks wind and scurries away so that he doesn't get blamed for the ensuing odor.
All jokes aside, the capital city needs a mayor, it currently has a psuedo mayor, Okeefe is only interested in being popular. -
- Ed
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:16:59
Since it is a safety issue, why not erect some large warning signs with Busy drivethru ahead marked on them somewhere within 100 meters of any entrance/exit where the lineups pour out into the streets and maybe even have Tim Hortons bear some of their cost. I wish they had a self dispensing coffee machine drivethru only!
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- jeff
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:16:08
Wal Mart will face a huge lawsuit in the US because of a shopper getting trampled to death just before xmas. Why? Because they didn't have an effective crowd control plan. Tim Horton's doesn't either and will be in the same situation soon enough. I hope Mr. Ellsworth, Mr. George, Mr. O'Keefe, Mr. Tim Horton Manager et al can sleep at night when it happens.
And acquiring more land is your answer? Why don't you just pave the entire city so we can be just like Toronto! I think that anyone opposed to the drive thrus should stop going there altogether. I know I'm done after this charade. Irving coffee is way better anyway. -
- mICHAEL
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:15:49
This problem is not Nfld. specific...Why not just put a cop at the scene of the problem and put an end to cars blocking the flow of traffic? Move it or get a ticket.....I'm betting they'll soon move on, rather than pay a fine
-
- Graham
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:15:21
Get a meter maid or police to issue tickets for people blocking roads and causing safety hazards.
CHA-CHING !!!
How can the council not want to jump at this financial opportunity ? Unless of course, they are, like Fedup from NL said, idiots and morons. Now that'd be easy to believe.
Actually, the root cause is Tim Horton's oversight. They also need to be held accountable. Fine them for each ticket issued.
CHA-CHING again !!!
Hey council... WAKEY WAKEY !!! Please learn some common sense -
- Fedup
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:14:13
This councill is a bunch of morons. Typical city of St John's reactionary and extreme policy. This would never happen with Wells as Mayor, he wouldn't eeven allowed this to get voted on in the first place.
The problem is not with the company, it is with this city council that approved the stores in the first place. That is because they have no vision and are idiots.
Add to that the idiots that choose to line up on the street. When I leave my house I pass by 4 Tim Hortons and if I want a coffe I don't stop at the first one if it is too busy, I certainly don't park on the street. Normally when the drive through is full you can walk inside and get served quite quickly. -
- H
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:12:08
I think part of the problem with the Tim Horton's drive thru situation is that you get people going through ordering 8 coffees and 2 bagels (like someone did ahead of me this morning). It's unreasonable to expect the people working inside to be able to move at a sensible pace when they've got huge orders coming through like that. People should have the common decency to go inside with large orders. If there was a limit on the number of items per order in the drive thru, lineups wouldn't be so long, and there'd be less of a chance of people being stuck in the middle of the road. Also, people should be aware that if the lineup extends out into the road, they weren't meant to get their coffee.
-
- A
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:10:28
The One in Mount pearl is an Accident waiting to happen, I love my coffee but iam willing to park the car and go in. I say, let's cut them out. They build the tim's and don't even have enoegh room for the drivethru to fit 4 or 5 cars. With all the money that the owner brings in, spend a bit on your length for ur drivethru, your quick enoegh to grab our money from the window, try putting some back into the land of it.
-
- vipor
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:10:25
rich if you go back and check tims history horton had a partner from the usa and american money got it going canadian maybe
-
- L
- - July 2nd, 2010 at 13:08:49
The Council of St John's Have much bigger problems than this. I was in St John's last winter for a funeral, this must be the only city in Canada that does NOT Clean the side walks, I had to Walk on the road, (not side walks) with a cane, (I am Handi-cap.) from St Clair's Hospital to Harvey Rd. The council must not think about the handi-cap people of St John's NFLD. I meet one man trying to get to the hospital with a walker. We were both wet from the car driving by, But we could not get in on the side walks, that is were the city plows the snow from the road. The people of St John's should look at what the council is wasting time on, Maybe after somebody dies because this snow problem, then it might make it to the top of the councils list.???????
-
- Murf
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:21:48
Hey Tim Hortons and Staff! Thanks for such wonderful coffee and services. You shine! And without you we'd be back to boring old instant with a top-up of the old chlorine! Yep, all we're lacking is to add a crankier St. John's to our distinction. Truth is, you deserve more respect in the industry and I believe we should put up a toll gate and reward your effort with generosity, appreciation and tips. Now as for traffic problems, ask an expert - the former mayor as surely that was a priority for Mile One? Bouquet Tim Hortons - hang in there!
-
- Wayne
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:20:35
I sometimes wonder if its the drive thru's being the problem or the people who park into the main highway waiting to get a small coffee (regardless if its just black or a double double) If a person needs that cup of coffee to function, and especially Tim Horton's I think they should start looking at themselves because that intense need for Tim's is not worth the risk of getting injured or worse because something plows into you because your vehicle is stuck into a main roadway trying to get into the parking lot
-
- AnnD
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:20:02
You'll have to go back a long way on Council to blame all the idiots who passed the drive thrus. They all overflow at lunchtime. Council should have made a change to the code long before this.
-
- steve
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:17:56
RON ELLSWORTH FOR MAYOR.......Lets dump Okeefe....he's too lame for the job!
-
- vipor
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:17:52
tim horton rules american company win again
-
- Rich
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:17:03
To vipor maddox from holyrood: Tim Horton was born in Ontario, and it is a Canadian Company.......
-
- Sandy
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:12:31
What a joke this Mayor O'keefei s...get some balls and mamage the city. The majority of taxpayers agreed with your decision, and then you backed away. Isn't that what any business is suppose to do, provide a plan as to how it will effect the pubic traffic etc???
-
- Mark
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:11:48
One of my biggest pet peeves is waiting in line, whether it be in a drive thru, drug store, atm, bank etc.
WRT to this issue, I see a few ideas where customers can be re-educated on drive thru ettiquette because obviously some Joe Six Packs in this town have gotten lazy.
1 - Charge for orders over a certain quantity. You order 8 coffees,6 bagels (2 requiring to be toasted), sorry you should be required to pay a drive thru penalty on making not only the Tim Horton's employees rush their job, but for wasting the time of everyone else.
2 - Any store with a drive thru should start refusing drive thru service on large orders. Instead, the customer should be told, park your car and come inside.
A drive thru was invented for convenience not so the Joe Office worker or Sally the lonely housewife can go and clog it up with large orders. -
- What A
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:11:02
Ya know, nine times outta ten when needing to drop the other half off at work in the mornings, she needs her fix. I refuse to sit in a line for twenty min. I have seen the store empty and 15 to 20 cars sitting in line.
It is far quicker service inside then out. You really have to wonder what people are thinking when they see others parking, getting the Joe to go and are long gone while they sit and fume.
The fact that City Hall is turning into the new home of the catch phrase Flip-Floppers. Wonder how all the other cities see the great city of St. Johns after this about face? How much credit for a stand was just flushed into the St. Johns Harbour?
Hate to be the one fending the phone lines at city hall today.
Best thing out of this will be that they know will see that the $100.00 snow tickets will be gone just as fast since not one has any back-bone when they come up with anything in chamber. -
- Fedup
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:06:33
Rich from NL writes: To vipor maddox from holyrood: Tim Horton was born in Ontario, and it is a Canadian Company.......
---------
Rich, Tim Hortons was bought out by Wendy's back in 1995 so it was not a Canadian Company after that. In 2005 Wendy's did an IPO for Tim Hortons and made 18% of the company public. -
- jake
- - July 1st, 2010 at 20:00:00
@ anna
so a great improvement at the Harvey Road location warrants a congrats to council for solving what huge problem? The one at Harvey Road? I can count at least 5 - 6 other locations where they still have problems, came across two this morning on my way to work, still spilling into the road -
- anna
- - July 1st, 2010 at 19:59:08
I have noticed a great improvement at the Harvey Road location, since this issue has been bought up by council. The Harvey Road location is no longer a menace in the mornings. Congratulations to Council for finally getting this huge problem solved.
-
- what a dough dough
- - July 1st, 2010 at 19:57:47
Okeefe reminds me of the guy who breaks wind and scurries away so that he doesn't get blamed for the ensuing odor.
All jokes aside, the capital city needs a mayor, it currently has a psuedo mayor, Okeefe is only interested in being popular. -
- Ed
- - July 1st, 2010 at 19:57:16
Since it is a safety issue, why not erect some large warning signs with Busy drivethru ahead marked on them somewhere within 100 meters of any entrance/exit where the lineups pour out into the streets and maybe even have Tim Hortons bear some of their cost. I wish they had a self dispensing coffee machine drivethru only!
-
- jeff
- - July 1st, 2010 at 19:56:01
Wal Mart will face a huge lawsuit in the US because of a shopper getting trampled to death just before xmas. Why? Because they didn't have an effective crowd control plan. Tim Horton's doesn't either and will be in the same situation soon enough. I hope Mr. Ellsworth, Mr. George, Mr. O'Keefe, Mr. Tim Horton Manager et al can sleep at night when it happens.
And acquiring more land is your answer? Why don't you just pave the entire city so we can be just like Toronto! I think that anyone opposed to the drive thrus should stop going there altogether. I know I'm done after this charade. Irving coffee is way better anyway. -
- mICHAEL
- - July 1st, 2010 at 19:55:33
This problem is not Nfld. specific...Why not just put a cop at the scene of the problem and put an end to cars blocking the flow of traffic? Move it or get a ticket.....I'm betting they'll soon move on, rather than pay a fine
-
- Graham
- - July 1st, 2010 at 19:54:49
Get a meter maid or police to issue tickets for people blocking roads and causing safety hazards.
CHA-CHING !!!
How can the council not want to jump at this financial opportunity ? Unless of course, they are, like Fedup from NL said, idiots and morons. Now that'd be easy to believe.
Actually, the root cause is Tim Horton's oversight. They also need to be held accountable. Fine them for each ticket issued.
CHA-CHING again !!!
Hey council... WAKEY WAKEY !!! Please learn some common sense -
- Fedup
- - July 1st, 2010 at 19:52:59
This councill is a bunch of morons. Typical city of St John's reactionary and extreme policy. This would never happen with Wells as Mayor, he wouldn't eeven allowed this to get voted on in the first place.
The problem is not with the company, it is with this city council that approved the stores in the first place. That is because they have no vision and are idiots.
Add to that the idiots that choose to line up on the street. When I leave my house I pass by 4 Tim Hortons and if I want a coffe I don't stop at the first one if it is too busy, I certainly don't park on the street. Normally when the drive through is full you can walk inside and get served quite quickly. -
- H
- - July 1st, 2010 at 19:49:10
I think part of the problem with the Tim Horton's drive thru situation is that you get people going through ordering 8 coffees and 2 bagels (like someone did ahead of me this morning). It's unreasonable to expect the people working inside to be able to move at a sensible pace when they've got huge orders coming through like that. People should have the common decency to go inside with large orders. If there was a limit on the number of items per order in the drive thru, lineups wouldn't be so long, and there'd be less of a chance of people being stuck in the middle of the road. Also, people should be aware that if the lineup extends out into the road, they weren't meant to get their coffee.
-
- A
- - July 1st, 2010 at 19:46:29
The One in Mount pearl is an Accident waiting to happen, I love my coffee but iam willing to park the car and go in. I say, let's cut them out. They build the tim's and don't even have enoegh room for the drivethru to fit 4 or 5 cars. With all the money that the owner brings in, spend a bit on your length for ur drivethru, your quick enoegh to grab our money from the window, try putting some back into the land of it.
-
- vipor
- - July 1st, 2010 at 19:46:23
rich if you go back and check tims history horton had a partner from the usa and american money got it going canadian maybe
-
- L
- - July 1st, 2010 at 19:43:47
The Council of St John's Have much bigger problems than this. I was in St John's last winter for a funeral, this must be the only city in Canada that does NOT Clean the side walks, I had to Walk on the road, (not side walks) with a cane, (I am Handi-cap.) from St Clair's Hospital to Harvey Rd. The council must not think about the handi-cap people of St John's NFLD. I meet one man trying to get to the hospital with a walker. We were both wet from the car driving by, But we could not get in on the side walks, that is were the city plows the snow from the road. The people of St John's should look at what the council is wasting time on, Maybe after somebody dies because this snow problem, then it might make it to the top of the councils list.???????
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