Cheers & Jeers

Staff ~ The Telegram
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Jeers: to losing at the numbers game. Well, the overall population of the province may have gone up by an estimated 96 people, but let's hope they weren't looking for jobs. Statistics Canada said Friday that 8,100 jobs disappeared in this province in June, a 3.6 per cent drop in the number of jobs in the province. The drop wiped out job increases in May and increased the unemployment rate by 0.9 per cent to 14.7 per cent. It was far and away the largest drop in jobs in the country; only seven provinces showed increases in jobs in June, and New Brunswick and Manitoba had drops of 0.7 per cent and 0.4 per cent respectively. This, while Ontario and Quebec saw 90,000 new jobs. Oh well, on the bright side, job growth in this province since July 2009 is still outstripping the national average.

Jeers: to losing at the numbers game. Well, the overall population of the province may have gone up by an estimated 96 people, but let's hope they weren't looking for jobs. Statistics Canada said Friday that 8,100 jobs disappeared in this province in June, a 3.6 per cent drop in the number of jobs in the province. The drop wiped out job increases in May and increased the unemployment rate by 0.9 per cent to 14.7 per cent. It was far and away the largest drop in jobs in the country; only seven provinces showed increases in jobs in June, and New Brunswick and Manitoba had drops of 0.7 per cent and 0.4 per cent respectively. This, while Ontario and Quebec saw 90,000 new jobs. Oh well, on the bright side, job growth in this province since July 2009 is still outstripping the national average.

Cheers: to the Newfoundland government's press release system, and its incredible level of self-promotion. July 2, the minister of fisheries and aquaculture, Clyde Jackman, managed to use the term "Williams government" or "Premier Williams" six times in a single release, all while listing what the government had done in the fishing industry. That has to be some kind of record.

Cheers: to checks and balances and the honesty of the market. Seems a momentary spike in the price of oil in June 2009 was caused by an unusual market force - booze. One single British trader got loaded, and made improper trades without his clients' permission. By the time he passed out, he'd bought some 7.1 million barrels of oil worth US$520 million and had driven the international price of oil up by $2 a barrel. One of the funnier (or more pathetic) side effects? Other investment houses issuing press releases giving a myriad of authoritative but speculative reasons for the price increase - proving, of course, what good hands the markets are in. And the trader? After his mammoth trades were all said and done, the trader said he had suffered an alcoholic blackout, and could remember none of it. Feeling good about your market-based RRSP, are you? How about living in a provincial economy based on oil prices?

Jeers: to a continuing lack of planning. So, the St. John's city council is still waiting for the Northeast Avalon Regional Plan (NEAR) before updating the St. John's Municipal Plan. Meanwhile, other communities are moving ahead, because the NEAR plan seems almost moribund at this point. At the same time, there's plenty of development going through City Hall that may well raise issues with any new city planning moves. Broader issues like Metrobus and ever-expanding residential developments are percolating along in the usual, ad-hoc, waffling St. John's manner, and just about everybody, pro-heritage or pro-development, agrees the current plan has issues that have to be dealt with. What exactly is the disconnect?

Geographic location: New Brunswick, Manitoba, Ontario Quebec St. John's Newfoundland Northeast Avalon Regional Plan

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  • Ed
    July 20, 2010 - 13:03

    Thanks for revealing your identity Agnes, rather than hiding behind a false front. Perhaps you'd just sign your proper name next time. It is so much simpler. As for Voisey's Bay, I agree with Premier Williams that it was a good deal. I am surprised you disagree with him on that, but then again the world is full of surprises. If you'd like to give specific examples of other issues you talked about, I'd be happy to discuss them with you. As for what I disagree with, let me say that generally I disagree with wrong information, fantasies, fairy tales and other forms of misinformation. people would be much better off if they made decisions based on what actually happened rather than on the stories others pass around that turn out to be false.

  • W
    July 20, 2010 - 13:03

    FYI Jeremy & Darrell, unemployment statistics are compiled for those LOOKING for work, so all those beer swilling, lazy good for nothings aren't included in the stats. However I do agree with you guys, I'd like to see the stats on percentage of social assistance recipients...........vs age

  • A Shame what happened
    July 20, 2010 - 13:03

    It is impossible to examine the facts with you since you deny, deny, deny the facts.

  • A Shame what happened
    July 20, 2010 - 13:03

    I think you should direct your question to former Federal Fisheries Minister, Lloyola Hearn, he will probably give you an itemize list of all things traded internationally for fish quotas.

  • A Shame what happened
    July 20, 2010 - 13:03

    Jason from Toronto. I agree with some of what you have to say. But Jason when our population were unaware, because of the low grade transparency which exists in governments in Canada, how do you expect the ordinary Newfoundlander and Labradorian to have any clue as to what was going on with the appointment of Newfoundland and Labrador's natural resource base. to the benefit of other provinces and nations? I consider myself to be keenly aware on most things but up until 15 years ago, I had no idea of how the Fishery was mismanaged by the Federal Government for the benefit of other parts of Canada and the World. I had no idea of how bad and unfair a deal the Upper Churchill Hydroelectric Energy Project really was, I had no idea of the extent of raw minerals going out of NL for the economies of other provinces, and neither did I know that our Oil was being refined in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, with none destined for NL unless the 2 provinces which were given the rights to refine that Oil, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, release some of it to the province of NL for refining When I fully became aware at first of what was going on here was when the NL government was making the move to sell off Newfoundland and Labrador Power and Sue Kelland Dyer's voice came booming over the radio saying that it was not going to happen. Next was when the Voisey Bay raw Nickel was being given to 2 Canadian Smelters for smelting, Sudbury, Ontario and Thompson, Manitoba. I had my voice heard on that through calling the Open Line Shows but it did not make one bit of difference, my little input was drowned out by a Liberal Premier at the time who was a big Federalist and was, no doubt, making sure that the 2 Canadian Smelters would be the beneficiary of the Grade One Nickel Ore. Also the National Newspapers of Canada, had journalists coming out of their ears wanting to comment, even a journalist from a School of Economics touted the fact that the raw ore from Voisey's Bay should be destined for those 2 smelters which were running out of ore. Now where I would have liked to have seen Memorial University of Newfoundland and Labrador step into the fray was to add its voice to those of us who were against it. Jason you might think that they should be exonerated, but after all MUNL is a learning Institution based in this province and it should be standing up for what is right for this province, and it should have rebutted some of the National Journalists, who were having it no other way than that the raw Nickel Ore was going to be shipped out of NL and it was going to Sudbury and Thompson. Jason how could you stand up and say MUNL should not work for what is right for the province with jurisdiction over it? There are people working in that Institution who are only thinking about their own careers and bottom lines and how far they get in life. They don't give one iota about the ordinary Newfoundlander and Labradorian. It is plain to see as the nose on our face that our province was laden with a great natural resource base and THAT it didn't create anything big for itself from it, but it sure could have, had those in charge spoke up and our University backed them up. I heard one spokesman, a political scientist, from MUNL one evening commenting to Peter Mansbridge on CBC telling Canadians that the province of Newfoundland and Labrador did well under Canada. Good Grief how could he have said such a thing when the facts shows otherwise. Canada did very well from the resource base of NL. DO THEY STILL THINK WE ARE ALL UNAWARE? If the electorate of the other provinces had been kept in the dark about everything, they would have ended up stupid to, but they had no worries, the Central Government was working on their behalf and everything fell in place. Other Canadians did not have to be so aware of matters. Had NL used its resources for itself, the people would be workless in Ontario and the other provinces, as well. But after speaking of being unaware, Newfoundlanders and Labradorians DO have to smarten up and become more aware in greater numbers.

  • A Shame what happened
    July 20, 2010 - 13:03

    THE LAST PARAGRAPH IN MY LAST POST SHOULD HAVE READ! Memorial Univesity needs to answer why it sat idly by and watched the chance of Newfoundland and Labrador being able to create a real market economy over the past 61 past years of IT being part of Canada, in a superbly strong global economic era, NOT MATERIALIZE, from its VAST coveted natural resource base, while other areas of Canada were thriving on Newfoundland and Labrador's human and natural resource base which were shipped out of our province unimpeded, and with our politicians and our University looking the other way.

  • Ed
    July 20, 2010 - 13:03

    Agnes, type in caps all you want. Your information is still wrong. It is still false. Two specifics: 1. Fisheries. Please give just one example of a fish trade deal of the kind you think happened. Just one. No one has given any example ever. Even people who claim they know of them can't give one. They can't give one because they don't exist. 2. The Government of Newfoundland and Labrador will collect 10s of billions in offshore royalties under the terms of the 1985 Atlantic Accord and agreements signed before 2003 for the development of Hibernia, Terra Nova and White Rose. The federal portion is a tiny fraction by comparison and it is most definitely not the way you described it. Don't take my word for it. Ask the current Premier who has recited all these facts within the last two years. If you refuse to believe Danny Williams, I don't know who else you will believe. And please, Agnes, just sign your real name to the comments. We all know who you are.

  • A Shame what happened
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    You Ed Hollett are the one who is repeating false information. You know, as well, as every Newfoundlander and Labradorian that politicians and bureaucrats, mostly Liberals, over the past 61 years gave away our province's natural resource base. The coveted Upper Churchill Hydro Electric Energy which is worth approximately $1.7 Billion dollars a year goes to Quebec Hydro. The Government of Newfoundland and Labrador released those figures out just recently. The fish resource, whatever Ottawa does with it enables Ottawa to conduct a lot of Trade Internationally. We know Ottawa, in conjunction with NAFO doles out fish quotas which are 200 miles off our coast. If the province of NL had jurisdiction over that valuable renewable resource, it would be picking up the International Trade from that resource just like Norway and Iceland do from the fish resource off their coast. The Minerals and ores go out of this province to places like Sudbury, Ontario and Thompson, Manitoba to keep those smelters percolating. The Oil brings millions of dollar per year into the coffers of Ottawa and is used to keep Canadian Refineries percolating. How can you deny what I am saying Ed ?The footprints are there for anyone to see. It makes me even more scared that you are denying what really happend and that you were once part of the Liberal bureacratic system that oversaw it. How in the name of Job can you deny it. Anybody reading these commentaries know that you are wrong. SIMPLE QUESTION: ARE YOU DENYING THAT THE NATURAL RESOURCES I LISTED ABOVE ARE GOING OUT OF THIS PROVINCE, ED TO ADD SUBSTANTIALLY TO THE OTHER PROVINCES BOTTOM LINE? THIS IS THE QUESTION WHICH MUST BE ANSWERED, BUT YOU WILL NO DOUBT SKIRT IT AGAIN.

  • Ed
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    Agnes, this remains the fundamental problem with your comments: you present false information and claim them to be facts. Simple matter to resolve: give one single, verifiable example of a fish/trade deals to which you referred. Do that for any of the things you talked about. or, as WJM has asked, indicate which facts either of us have denied. You can't do any of that because your statements are not factual.

  • W
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    Jason from Toronto, Ontario writes: A Shame. WEehave to stop blaming others for our problems. Yes, central Canada takes what it wants = = = Jason: What are those things that it wants and 'takes'?

  • A Shame what happened
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    Jason - Before we can stop blaming we neex a fix. All of our natural resources are working for others, so we need desperate help on how to get things moving after being divorced from our natural resource base for so long. We need guidance from somebody. Ottawa was all there to offer it to the other provinces, with Summits, Expos, Olympics, and Prime Minister Trade Missions to Asia, etc. Jason how do you propose that we do that? Having resources to refine, process, smelt and manufacture was the only way that provinces, like Ontario, Quebec, Alberta and B.C. with the percolating economies could do it, so Jason how do you propose that the province of Newfoundland and Labrador create what needs to be created so that we will have jobs to give to those who need them? I will look forward to your reply Jason. Thanks! Maybe there is a unique solution that I haven't thought off.

  • Darrell
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    Obviously W Bagg they can't be looking to hard the gas station at the crossroads has been looking for at leat 3 weeks and the sign is still there.

  • Bert
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    I wonder will the telgram give their journalists a day off in recognition of finding some tangible evidence they can throw at the P.C. govt. Man they must feel like roosters-of-the-walk these days!!!

  • Ed
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    My solution, Agnes, is for people to stop spreading false information of the sort you've obviously gotten hold of. Your information is simply wrong - there's no other way to put it - and you refuse to accept accurate information.

  • Jerome
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    'It doesnt help matters that we have a load of illegal immigrants and refugees taking our jobs and abusing the welfare system' Jeremy, if want to take the time to find out how many immigrants are taking 'our' jobs, you will find that 'our' people are very reluctant to take minimum wage jobs. Immigrants will take anything, since any income is preferable to what they left. The problem here, and probably in most provinces is that we feel we deserve much more. Whether it's EI, social assistance or subsidized housing, we feel it is our right to demand more. Immigrants haven't been here long enough to adapt to that particular culture. Yes, they are 'our' jobs - if we want them. To criticize someone who fills the jobs we feel are beneath us, is unfair

  • W
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    Jason from Toronto, Ontario writes: W McLean Natural Resources. Ontario (Ottawa) sets policy such as how much of natural resource money it gets from a provinces resources. = = = No, actually, Jason, 'Ontario (Ottawa)' does not. One might ask the same questions of you: the Atlantic Accord gives 100% of the the royalties of offshore oil and gas to the province; the constitution does the same for all terrestrial resources such as mines or timber. Where have you been? As for federal government employees, 'Newfoundland' has 1.8% of the federal civil service workforce... and 1.5% of the overall population of Canada. 3.7% of the employed labour force in 'Newfoundland' works for the federal government. Only the three Maritime provinces have larger federal civil service workforces, relative to the total work force and total population, than 'Newfoundland' does. Any other Newfoundland nationalist myths you'd care to promulgate?

  • Ed
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    No matter how often you repeat false information, Agnes, it does not magically become true. People who refuse to accept false information are not skirting: they are rejecting information which is clearly, obviously and unmistakably false. You are wasting your time but only if you trying to insist on me accepting, acknowledging or believing to be true the false things you have claimed. If, at any time, though, you wish to have a discussion based on accurate information, then by all means bring it on.

  • Jon
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    Jason, you are correct that there are a lot with very poor work ethic around here. But PLEASE don't sterotype all newfoundlanders to be that way, cause it is not true. I for one love my leisure time like anyone else. But I find it much easier to enjoy that time knowing that I spend my fair share of time contributing to the place that I love so much. P.S. I think we should start a program that would make it obligatory for able-bodied people collecting E.I. to partake in some sort of community service (i.e., picking up the copius amounts of litter that is around). Just a thought.

  • Pierre Neary
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    Move over Steve Kent, Minister Jackman is taking over for you. I guess all these coat tail riding politicians are starting to jockey for position with an election year coming. They have been hiding behind the Premier for the last few years. They have allot of time to make for. Maybe Minister Jackson has finally come to the realization that without the Premier he and his colleagues are done like dinner. We are just seeing the start of the boot licking campaign by these hanger ons. They dont want the cash cow going anywhere.

  • J.M.
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    I think, Jeremy, that Jon pretty much already proposed a forced labor scheme. Humm, mandatory work in exchange for the bare necessities of life... seems vaguely familiar... Perhaps, Jon, your position could be done more... expediently. Just a thought.

  • A Shame what happened
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    Mr. Hollett you skirted the issues again, without answering the question of what your solutions are for the building of a vibrant economy in NL... an economy that will include thousands of jobs to employ our people, without, of course, the use of the natural resource base that has been shipped off so that other provinces of Canada could create jobs for the people they employ in their smelting, refining, processing and manufacturing industries. One needs to be a magician to overcome that obstacle of creating percolating economies while shipping off your resource base. Are you a Magician Mr. Hollett? Why were Ontario, Manitoba and Quebec so interested in getting raw resources from our province. Of course, they were coveted to create economies. You have no solution Mr. Hollett, that is why you didn`t offer any in the first place. It is strange how you cannot condemn the mistakes that the Liberal Party made throughout the years with our Natural Resource base, namely authorizing and allowing them to be shipped off for use in the other provinces and other parts of the World. After all the Liberal party ruled Canada and the province of Newfoundland and Labrador for about 75% of the time that Confederation was in being. You were a bureaucrat in the Liberal Government, weren`t you Mr. Hollett? And your committment to that party to this day is as profound as it ever was and, no way, will you condem the mistakes your party made with our natural resource base. It is sickening to me to see people who will skirt around issues of saying they are sorry and they wished that they hadn't toed the line for what was not right for the province of Newfoundland and Labrador. Will you please stand up Mr. Hollett and say for once in your life what happened to the province of Newfoundland and Labrador's raw natural resource base was nothing short of criminal?

  • Jason
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    Jon, have you been to the outports? I know people who plan their lives around EI and even worse, some idiots plan to go to jail every winter. Its insane. Maybe its a stereotype but way too many people do this to just write it off as a few individuals. Its a fact and its due to the province having no jobs and too many people use to sitting around and doing very little. Seems many still think you can drop out of high school and find work. Seems nothing has changed, even with the collapse of the fishery. Its time for people to start realizing education is the key to a modern economy. We are in a different world now, high school dropouts just can't go fishing. Alberta's heading this way with a 30+% drop out rate because they can find work in the oil patch. What happens when the oil runs out or everyone shifts to alternatives? Alberta will be just like Newfoundland. Uneducated men without work, planning their lives around fishing, drinking, hunting, and driving around and hanging out on parking lots. Nothing will change until you stop denying this is the case. Even those who can get jobs prefer seasonal ones. Why is that? So they can goof off and sponge off taxpayers. Take a good hard look around your community. This can be cahnged but attitudes have to first. Men can still be men and have a desk job.

  • A Shame what happened
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    To Both of You Federal Oriented Bloggers, I hope your exchange of DENIALS with me over the past day has earned you your much deserved Senatorship, Ambassadorship or whatever you are looking for, at present, from the Federal Government Patronage Kit. Maybe you are looking for Federally paid advertisments to run your blogs. If both of you can't see that the electorate of the province of Newfoundland and Labrador has been severely disadvantaged through the give-away of the province of Newfoundland and Labrador's resource base, well then you two are sadly doing your province a disservice. Both of you really need to assess what you are doing through your denials and change your ways, you are hurting all of us economically.

  • Jason
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    W McLean Natural Resources. Ontario (Ottawa) sets policy such as how much of natural resource money it gets from a provinces resources. Where the hell have you been? Do you not know about the Atlantic Accord? Probably don't as Central Canadians live in a bubble of self aggrandizement. I've been in Ontario 10 years and your attitudes towards other provinces seems to be more along the lines of pseudo colonies to feed to old boys club of upper Canada. Not to mention the cheap labour we are providing across the country since we have nothing of our own. Also compare every province with regard to federal employees and you'll find newfoundland comes up very short in comparison to everyone else. The least you can do while screwing us is to have the decency to give a reach around.

  • Jon
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    That is right Jeremy.Watch the bandwagon of people that are going to come pointing fingers at the government. They can only do so much, it is ultimately up to the people to employ themselves. I guess now that it's summer people would rather collect EI and be able to drink and fish whenever they want. I recently overhead a young person say they weren't going to look for work all summer cause he had a trip planned in august and he didn't want to f**k it up.

  • Anon
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    There is no sense of arguing over oil or energy or the money that goes with it. Nikola Tesla obsoleted our need for oil before the second world war by blasting soundwaves between 6 and 8 hz into the earths ionosphere and capturing the rebounded energy which he could even transmit wirelessly across great distances. There is a similar program today however it is not used for helping humanity. Its called HAARP. High altitude aural research program. Look it up. The energy these devices harness is incredible. We are litterally able to plug every electronic appliance in the world into the earth's ionosphere. Of course bankers and CEO's cant control anything thats free and can't in turn control consumers and thus the technology was ridiculed, the man was ridiculed and the CIA just waited for him to die before they took all of his papers. For the love of god people. Read books! watch documentaries and do some research.

  • Ed
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    Agnes, while you may be here representing a political party, I am not. I have tried to engage in a simple discussion and yet you seem to want to engage in some sort of diatribe. Very well, if that's what you want but what you are doing is pretty obvious to anyone. 1. You are mistaken on a number of points, though, not the least of which is the 1969 Churchill Falls deal. It was supported by all political parties in Newfoundland and Labrador at the time. It was a horrendous deal, as it turned out, but I doubt there was a single person who knew it at the time. 2. As for Voisey's Bay, you are simply wrong when you say that someone sign[ed] away on the largest Number One Grade Nickel deposit in the World, at the time, to Sudbury, Ontario and Thompson, Manitoba. It never happened. If you have a problem with the deal that was signed, then you might also take issue with the current Premier who - on consideration - declared it to be a good deal. As you should know, some ore was allowed to be exported in the beginning until the smelter/refinery was completed. That is most definitely not the story you told just now. You were - to put it bluntly - completely,. utterly, and totally wrong. 3. You are also completely wrong when you say that Ottawa has gotten the loin's share of the Hibernia Project with about 8.9%. It has already collected hundreds of Millions of dollars. Over the life of the deal signed in 1990, the provincial government will tens of billions in royalties. The federal government will receive only what it does from the 8.5% shares. you don't have to take my word for it. The numbers are there as presented when the Hibernia South extension deal was signed. The bulk of that money comes from the original pre-2003 deal. 4. You are also wrong when you claim that the Atlantic Accord ... has a clause which states that until other provinces, which have the option to refine 100% of that oil, say that we can refine oil from our offshore oil fields, there will be no oil refined in NL from that the Oil Fields off Newfoundland and Labrador. There is no such clause giving any other provincial government any power over offshore oil in the Newfoundland offshore area. As I said before, I am opposed to incorrect information and I regret very much that someone has given you so much wrong information.

  • Ed
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    Sorry, Agnes, but I dealt with the points you raised and put a new specific challenge to you. I asked you to give the specific examples of the resource giveaways you keep talking about. Please do so and I'd be happy to discuss them with you. And as for my identity, it is there. You're the one who seems to have something to hide. Just sign your name and let's have a good, frank exchange.

  • Ed
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    Two quick points: 1. The jobs numbers are probably a survey error by Statistics Canada both on the big increase in May and then the big drop in June. There's no apparent reason for either one. 2. Agnes, the only shame here is that you attack Memorial University based on what seems to be a whole bunch of wrong information. You should ask people at the university about the things you commented on. You might be shocked at the answers you get, but you'll have more accurate information.

  • W
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    Agnes, Loyola Hearn isn't the one making the claims about 'trade'. At least not anymore. You are. Can YOU back up YOUR claim? What was traded with which countries, in return for fish quotas. You're claiming it. Can YOU prove it?

  • W
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    Agnes, how is examining the facts hurting anyone economically?

  • W
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    Fess up; who put the phrase 'market economy' into Agnes' head?

  • Jason
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    The university plays no part in actively setting up a market system. Blame your politicains for relying on the easy stuff like shovelling it out of the ground, pumping it out of the ground or fishing it out of the ocean. If people stayed in school and got a higher education we wouldn't have to rely on deadbeats too stupid to do much else than dig. So don't attack intellectuals at MUN, blame yourselves for not demanding it from your politicans and your politicains for not wanting to do some actually work for a change. The university can only do so much, the next step is the governemnts to actually enact something that doesn't just benefit itself and its friends. I left the province precisely because job opportunites did not exist for me and its completely the govenments fault for not investing in other sectors than oil. I have been happily an dgainfully employed in Toronto for 10 years now. I could be doing this stuff in Newfoundland had any of our previous and current govenments had any foresight.

  • A Shame what happened
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    The fish resource, as we all know, which has been delved out to the province of Newfoundland and Labrador by Ottawa has been run by a select few for a select few Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. Its been corrupted for a long time now. Those organization which could have halted the direction it was heading in, like Memorial University of Newfoundland and Labrador through having a sane voice heard on the subject, the News Media, which had insight into what was going on decided to remain silent, thus the state of the fishery. The ordinary fisher was too unaware, because of the low grade transparency which was thrown up around the fishery to even have an inkling as to what was transpiring in their industry. There are so many bloggers and other media types out there which are aided and abetted by Government finances to keep things silent that it is hard for even the smartest amongst us to understand what is going on. Those amongst us who try to keep things under the radar will come back in comments, which are aimed at aiding and abetting the corruptors by saying prove it . We all know that moves that governments make, the information is not easy to acquire to prove anything. We have had people ask for information under the Freedom of Information only to be told that the information could not be released because it could damage foreign affairs and international trade contracts. So its is a ruse and inane commentary for you people to ask to prove anything. Some people are more astute than others and can see what is going on below the radar. Some people for the sake of keeping their own interests safe and having a good salary coming in to their househould will destroy the chance of having an economy which will directly benefit many people. In other words if the fishery had been looked after and delved out properly in the province of Newfoundland and Labrador, it could have been the primary industry here employing thousands directly and indirectly and providing the people with liveable salaries. You who seek to cover up better be aware that some day the truth will prevail, because at some point Newfoundlanders and Labradorians will know what went wrong for a renewable resource to have failed so badly.

  • Darrell
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    Jeremy I tend to agree I have been in several places over the last few weeks and see signs posted in the windows looking for people yet they can't find anyone.Obviously people must want the money handed to them without working for it.

  • A Shame what happened
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    Ed Hollett you are still skirting the number one question. I have never been employed by any Political Party, I have yet to meet the Premier of my province, so if you think I am PC, that should put that question at ease. I will put the matter I am concerned about in a simple form for you. Ed Hollett, after those in charge over the past 61 years gave away all of our natural resource base, FISH, HYDROELECTRIC ENERGY, MINERALS AND ORES OF ALL TYPES, and OIL, THE QUESTION IS how do you expect us in NL to build industry, which will contain enough jobs to employ our people. WHAT IS YOUR PROPOSAL FOR A SOLUTION IS THE QUESTION I WOULD LIKE YOU TO ANSWER? We need industry here as well as the other provinces do to create jobs. How come nobody in your Liberal Organization thought of that when you were given away our resource base? BILLIONS OF DOLLARS worth of raw materials are exported from the province of Newfoundland and Labrador every year to create economies with thousands of jobs in the other provinces.

  • Tom
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    W McLean, as for what central canada needs and takes, didn't you know that they are working in conjunction with the saucer people, under the supervision of the reverse vampires, in a fiendish plot to eliminate the meal of dinner? Where the hell have you been? Oh, and to Jason from Toronto, Ontario, you should realize more than anybody that just because you currently live in another province doesn't mean you're from there. I believe W Mclean is originally from the province of 'Newfoundland' and Labrador.

  • A Shame what happened
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    I am awaiting with baited breath for a reply from Mr. Ed Hollett to my queries of 2:22 pm. It is sure going to be interesting to hear what he has to say regarding exporting out ones natural resources for the benefit of the other provinces, while languishing in your own province with absolutely no economies emerging. If he and others knew that natural resources were needed to create economies in the other provinces, why did they not put two and two together and come up with the understandiong that the province of Newfoundland and Labrador needed its resource base to be kept at home to run economies. But by hook or by crook Newfoundland and Labrador's natural resource base got sent off to the other province. Some one somewhere has to answer to that. And so far nobody has, those involved in the scheme are sending up smoke screens with all kinds of inance questions and statements.

  • Nasty
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    Seems odd to want to stay on social assistance when the minimum wage is now at somewhat a decent level here. Maybe those places treat the employees like crap and people leave for other reasons. People do not just work for money, but for a little respect and a sense of satisfaction in doing a good job. Might be time to look at the employers a little more to see if they are not the issue. I have heard of these places with help wanted adds taking upto three months to respond to an application. Would you want to work for someone like that?

  • A Shame what happened
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    I can think of a couple of Federal Politicians from the province of NLwho toed the party line for Ottawa and became very rich, one as soon as his stint in the political realm in NL was over. That stint was to assure a couple of cities in Central Canada were going to be looked after from the finest Nickel ore source on the planet, which happened to be situated in Voisey's Bay, NL When the politician went back to Ottawa he was feted and dined and appointed to a very important cabinet post. Then Industry came a calling, matter of fact I couldn't keep up with the the Directorships, CEO apointment and whatever other patronage positions were out there in the Federal Government's tool kit that became available to him for toeing the line the way the Feds wanted him to. That Federal NL ex-politician has been wonderfully ingraitiated. And the ordinary Newfoundlander and Labradorian had no idea what was transpiring. Of course Ottawa set out to structure Central Canada to be the Hub oc Canada. Ottawa didn't mind looking after politicians who aided and abetted it in doing so. NL Federal politicians destroyed the chance for their own province to do well, they sold us down the drain because they were the overseers who saw Newfoundland and Labrador's vast resource base being exported out of here to grace the economic structure, which I am referring to. It created jobs and economies for the other provinces of Canada, but they sure made for a bad economy in their own province, NL Unless you were a viewer of BNN TELEVISION, you would not have had a clue what was going on. The regular National News reports nothing because they aid and abet the Federal Government as well, and to have been transparent on matters would have destroyed their plans. Never forget Canada has been downgraded by Transparency International on several occasions for low grade transparency. With the low grade transparency how would you expect the ordinary Newfoundlander/Labradorian or Ontarian, for that matter, to know what is going on? Not knowing what is going on has sure made for a bad situation in the province of Newfoundland and Labrador, whereas in Ontario it didn't make a roll of beans of a difference because being aware was not one of the attributes that the ordinary person from Ontario had to possess. The Federal Government was taking care of their needs big time!

  • W
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    The fish resource, whatever Ottawa does with it enables Ottawa to conduct a lot of Trade Internationally. = = = Trade? in which commodities? with which countries?

  • A Shame what happened
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    What else is going on, other than we gave away ALL of our raw resources so that the other provinces could have created vibrant economies. Our fish, minerals, ores, oil, electricity and as a result of shipping out our raw resources, we had to ship out our human resource as well? What else could the NL job seekers have done only to run and catch a job from the processing, smelting and refining of our resources that we so STUPIDLY allowed to be shipped out of here? Somebody should have to pay for such destructive decision making, but they won't, those same ex-politicians are still on the go accepting politicial government appointments, Directorships of big Corporations, Ambassadorships to foreign countries; and all the other goodies which are connected and are at arms length from the Federal Government. Such Appointments are given out by the Federal Government as payment for assisting the Federal Government in having built the economic structure that was built in Canada, over the past 61 years, at the expense of the province of NL. Can you journalists, especially the Telegram get a politican who is well versed on the statistical economic demographics of Canada, to impart on us what happened for the province of NL to have lost 8100 jobs in June 2010? This is critical information and we need to know what happened when the rest of Canada was on fire with regards to creating jobs during that time period. I do know though that more than a Billion dollars was pumped into Ontario for the G8/G20 Summits, many service jobs were created there. We need to know, and our journalists from all of our local News Media should be sourcing out that information for us. Without good journalist in the future, we will be forced to repeat the past. And the Journalists must not be afraid to speak on what is happening in our province. I would like to see Memorial University take a better part and have its ideas heard. Surely Creation Memorial University must have known that Newfoundland and Labrador's natural resource base was being shipped out of here over the past 61 years to the detriment of creating an economy at home? It was as plain as the nose on ones face, and there was no economy being created. Why did Memorial University stand idly by and not speak up, after all it is our Institution of Advanced Learning. Its Economic Department must be adept enough to know that if you ship off your natural and human resource base, there can be no appreciable real market economy created. Was it ignorance or was it aiding and abetting the free flow of our natural resource from here and thus it was toeing the line for Ottawa? Ottawa had a plan and that wass to build a strong Central Canada, since Central Canada didn't have the resource base, those raw natural resources had to come from places in the province of Newfoundland and Labrador. The human resource also had to be drawn from the province and NL and also outside immigration. I would love to have answers! Memorial Univesity needs to answer why it sat idly by and watched the chance of Newfoundland and Labrador being able to create a real market economy over the past years happen from its coveted natural resource base, while other areas of Canada were thriving on Newfoundland and Labrador's human and natural resource base which were shipped out of our province unimpeded.

  • A Shame what happened
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    I hope my fellow commentators understand that this gentleman is seriously skirting the important questions. This man is very well informed since he worked with all the Liberal ruling parties over the past 2 decades Please answer the questions| You are the person who has many years of knowledge from being party to Liberal Governments in our province. Ed Hiollett you dealt with NOTHING, you didn't give me any solutions on how we can start things percolating economically in Newfoundland and Labrador without the use OF our rich resource base which has long ago been given away. Ed Hollett what solutions did you give me to kick starting economies in our province with jobs, with no natural resource base to work from? Please Answer! Okay Ed why did your party sign away on the largest Number One Grade Nickel deposit in the World, at the time, to Sudbury, Ontario and Thompson, Manitoba? You were profusely being lobbied not to do so from the electorate of the province. It was long touted up to that time when the Voisey's Bay deal was being negotiated that we didn't want that ore to go anywhere other than to stay in the province of Newfoundland and Labrador to create economies right here. Why did your party not stop at that juncture, when you were being actively lobbied, to not to give it away to Ontario and Manitoba? Why did your party, the Liberal Party not pay attention to what the electorate was saying? It was known that we did a very bad deal on the Upper Chuchill Hydroelectric Energy, the Liberal Government signed off on that contract in a 70 year Contract, and today we are told that the province of Newfoundland and Labrador gets $65 Million dollars annually, while Quebec Hydro receives $1.7 Billion dollars. The province of NL gets about 5% of the total revenue, Quebec gets 95%. The province of Newfoundland and Labrador's share is slated to get smaller again in the year 2016. The Liberals did that deal. Ottawa has gotten the loin's share of the Hibernia Project with about 8.9%. It has already collected hundreds of Millions of dollars. The Atlantic Accord which governs that contact has a clause which states that until other provinces, which have the option to refine 100% of that oil, say that we can refine oil from our offshore oil fields, there will be no oil refined in NL from that the Oil Fields off Newfoundland and Labrador. The province of Newfoundland and Labrador's resource base works very well for other parts of Canada, but it is doing very little towards creating jobs in the province of Newfoundland. Most of the give-aways were done by ruling Liberal Governments.. I am not saying the PCs didn't give anything away, I am sure they did, but it was miniscule compared to the give-aways of the Libeals. None of Newfoundalnd and Labrador's politicians did what was right and proper for our province. They all favored looking after what was best for them..

  • A Shame what happened
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    Ask Lloyla Hearn the former Fisheries Minister of Canada, maybe just maybe he will give you and itemize list!

  • Jason
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    A Shame. WEehave to stop blaming others for our problems. Yes, central Canada takes what it wants and gives us the shaft but just taking it isn't going to solve anything. This has been ongoing since confederation. WE are too blame, not Canada. We seem to passively agree to it by not challenging it to change things. Our fisherieswere mismanaged and its too late now but its time we took control. Fix what you see wrong instead of settling for it. If we have to... separate but complaining for 60 years hasn't gotten us anywhere has it? Unless you consider losing all our youth and having people planning their lives around government handouts a plus. One sure step in the right direction is to stop voting for people who are characters and popular and voting for someone with a plan. I see this far to often, your mayor or MP or MHA are usually elected because of who they are and not what they can do. My hometown is rife with this. One family maintains a hold of business, and the town council and milks it. Its worse than third world countries. Of course things are bad for the majority but its REALLY good for some, isn't it?

  • W
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    Which fact have I denied, Agnes?

  • W
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    D'oh! Tom Cod, I forgot all about the reverse vampires! I take it all back!

  • Jon
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    J.M. I wasn't suggesting, as you put it, forced labor for the bare necessities of life. I was more putting forth an idea for the discouragement of people to voluntarily and intentionally go on E.I. just because they can (abusing the system) and sitting around all day collecting mine and yours tax dollars to pay for non-essential items such as booze, cigarettes, video games, cable subscriptions, cell phones, etc. etc. Where are the neccessities in that? Perhaps of the thought of having to do various community services to in exchange for E.I. money will provide a bit of encouragement to get off your a** and look for work instead of easily abusing the system.

  • Telling it like it is
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    Nowadays, a typical townie won't accept a new job unless it included a 20 year, no cut contract and a second home in Bora Bora. Like someone else said, everyone expects more, why? Primarily because they can't live within their means. Keeping up with the Joneses is why the house prices are going up, why a minimum wage of $10 is no longer acceptable (my first job in 1999 paid me $6 an hour!) and why everyone is complaining about money all the time. People are greedy people who feel the need to show off to their friends and neighbors. If I get a 50 inch flat screen, the neighbor needs a 51 inch flat screen just to show me up. It's truly quite pathetic.

  • A Shame what happened
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    I have visited Signal Hill a couple of times this summer and I saw this new sign on the Hill titled Newfoundland Centred World . It is a very popular sign with the tourists. The sign shows St. John's lies in the bulls eye of the Earth. Our province was and still is, of course, situated between the once two greatest economic powers on the face of the Earth, the European Union and the North American Continent during the economic expansion that occurred after the Second World War in those two great powers, and the best we could do was ship off our coveted natural resource base for others to build buoyant economies. When some of our people have asked why don't we set up an Automobile Plant here , the refrain was that we were too far from markets. What a lie! We were right on the trading routes of the North Atlantic Ocean, in the Bull's eye and we had the natural resources which were utilized for car making in the other province. We weren't too far away for others to take away our natural resource base to manufacture cars. Japan which is an isolated and a resourceless island was able to build a great car industry after the Second World War. The manufacturing of cars could probably have been done much cheaper here by utilizing the province's resources, at least we didn't have to add the expense of shipping out the materials. Labrador would have been very conducive to such a business. I just heard comments out of General Motors recently that they will not be depending on their old markets as much, but instead will be concentrating on Europe and China. The province of NL is closer to Europe than where the car plants are now situated. Our politicians and bureacrats shafted matters given our strategically positioned and well endowed natural resource rich province. We could have had a jewel of an economy built here , but we didn't.

  • J.M.
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    Perhaps, Jon, we should make all 'taxpayers' do extra community service since, as we know, tax evasion is a much greater drain to the tax system than 'welfare fraud.' Using your logic, we can assume that taxpayers, as a group, are collectively guilty of defrauding the system and hiding thier money in Swiss bank accounts, presumably to use that money on cocaine, international travel, BMW's, prostitutes, furs, etc, etc.

  • Jeremy
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    Quite so, Darrell and Jon. It doesnt help matters that we have a load of illegal immigrants and refugees taking our jobs and abusing the welfare system.

  • A Shame what happened
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    Ah Ed your skirting the question again. It is as plain as the nose on our face that the Liberal Government, mostly, sold us down the drain by giving away our natural resource base, which amounts to Billions of dollars for other provinces' economies each year. I do believe you were a Bureaucrat for the Liberals in a couple of their ruling governments, so I guess it is folly of me to expect you to fess up with an answer. We know that there are Billions of dollars worth of raw resources leaving the province of Newfoundland and Labrador every year to be refined, smelted, processed, and used for Manufacturing in the other provinces. The party you pledge allegiance to, the Liberals, was in power for 75 per cent of the time during the giveaways and if anyone could answer the question, you should be able to do so accurately. But why should I expect you to do so, in every one of your commentaries you refuse to acknowledge the extent of the give-aways of our resources, every one of which has a footprint to follow? And you refuse to give a solution as to how a vibrant, job-filled economy can be established in the province of NL, since our natural resource base has been exported out of our province for the benefit of others. When a person is so bent on not acknowledging what transpired with our natural resource base and giving a solution for how we can erect an economy here to include jobs, I am wasting my time asking you to answer a simple question. I have never worked for Government in any capacity, so I cannot take responsibility for what happened. The only thing that I will own up to was that I was so complacent for the first 35 years of my life and I put my elected politicians and the bureaucrats they hired on auto pilot, simply because I thought they were honest people. So I guess I have to take responsibility for that.

  • Jeremy
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    I just made a couple of inane comments based on nothing but a knee-jerk generalization to unfairly scapegoat people who are unemployed (I mean, come on, blaming unemployment on the unemployed? How absurd is that?) while completely ignoring the economic and political forces that depend on unemployment as a means to tame wages and already I have a handful of intellectual midgets who are ready and willing to snap at the bait. W. Bagg threw in people collecting social assistance, but it could have been Natives, union bosses, Muslims, protesters, etc. and you still would have been grunting in approval. I bet I could have gone farther and suggested that they be carted off to forced labour camps, and you would be on your hind legs braying in agreement. I guess its easy to see where Steven Harper (or Adolf Hitler, for that matter) get their support.

  • jason
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    Jeremy. You seem to be full of it. Illegal immigrants can't work anywhere except under the table for scraps. Redfugees cabn't either until they get citizenship and most are so uneducated they never work more than 3 part time jobs for scarps also. I hear this complaint a lot of times. and its Bulls***. besides illegals and refugees, legitimate immigrants are filling jobs that no one else seems to one or is educated enough to do. Get a trade or a degree and your whining will go away. A Cuban friend of mine works 100 times harder than anyone I saw while living in Newfoundland. You seem to like to sit on your asses so you can drink , fish and hunt. Jobs seem to be an inconvenience to many. Get a work ethic and stop complaining about non existant straw man. You pay way to much attention to the whiny neo-conservatives.

  • A Shame what happened
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    Ed Hollett I have a couple of questions for you. Are you the Liberal Bureaucrat who was around in the Newfoundland and Labrador government circles during Clyde Wells and Roger Grimes Premierships? If so did you agree with Voisey's Bay raw ore being shipped out of Newfoundland and Labrador when there were so many needs to create a bouyant economy in our province of Newfoundland and Labrador; also we were so deficient in jobs? A general question do you agree in general with shipping out raw resources, when there is a great need already existing in one's own province to create economies? As you arprobably are quite aware we have shipped off all of our wonderful raw materials for either processing, refining or smelting and as in the case of the Upper Churchill Hydro for resale. You cannot deny that it happened a) Fish b) Hydroelectrcity Energy, c) Minerals and Ores of all types and d) Oil. Why did we do that Mr. Hollett, maybe you can answer a lot of my queries by answering the questions I just posed to you?

  • Jeremy
    July 20, 2010 - 13:02

    Well, we know who to blame for unemployment: The unemployed! Get off your ar$es and get a job. There is plenty of work out there, you just have to look for it rather than drinking beer and living the high life on my taxes.