- Winston Adams
- November 27, 2012 - 10:33
Cyril, these units are now mass produced and are competitively prices, but still not cheap. In the Usa you can buy them at Home Depot. I beleive Rona may carry them. The problem is getting the correct size and correct installation and set up. I would envisage nfld power being a supplier, as they could purchase on alarge scale direct from the factory. The installind dealer would buy direct from them. There would be no room or profit potential for me or any wholesaler in this arrangement. An holistic approach for energy efficiency make the best choices for keeping the cost to the consumer lowest. The engineering aspect to size the units, where my skill might be used for large commercial buildings, can be avoided for residential if appropriate guidelines are mandatory and used by the installing dealers. This is the best and most cost effective way for residential markets. And this way a company such as mine is bypassed. But my skills have always been on the commercial side, so this is not a loss or disappointment for me. JohnSmith's suggestion that I wiil get rich selling units that will solve our energy needs- 1.I'm rich enough, though many are richer. 2 the market for these is structured such that it is not worthwhile for me to try and profit from sales of these residential units. 3 John is trying to discredit the efficiency solution .
- Cyril Rogers
- November 26, 2012 - 22:34
The fact that Winston Adams owns a company that sells these products should qualify him as someone with lots of product knowledge and expertise. Does Mr. Adams have a vested interest in this product? I am sure he would like to sell many more of them but he has also requested that NALCOR conduct an independent study to verify his findings. Knowing how they operate, they would find someone who sells regular baseboard units, find that they are much cheaper to purchase, and declare they are the least cost option. Silly, I know, but that's all the faith I have in the findings of NALCOR and the government, given their reluctance to conduct comprehensive studies.
- Winston Adams
- November 26, 2012 - 17:04
DISCLOSURE: I stated that I have experience in heating systems. I am 64 years old, on the verge of retirement, including business interests. Beyond my experience in the power generation and distribution field, I have been involved entirely in commercial projects. I supplied all the air moving equipment for the Clarenville and Burin Hospitals in the 1980's. I have not been involved in the retail level at any time. I have helped procure a few efficient heating units for mostly family members who had little prior knowledge of such energy savers. My keen interest in such systems dates to the 1970, my first attempt at research was to put warm water in a plastic pipe and check it's heat transfer rate, to see if it was more economic than copper pipe. Plastic is now the common way for type 1 systems. My experience with commercial systems pointed to a day when such technology would be economic enough to bewidely used for residential applications. My research for the residential use commenced 3 years ago. Others were installing these prior to then, but without actual research data for our climate. When the PUB hearing started I felt it important and necessary to bring this to the attention of the PUB and did so. I was asked by the staff there if I wanted my company name on correspondance that would be public. I considered this and answered no. 1. I was not not advertising my company throught this submission.2 The Telegram had written a piece saying companies were afraid to oppose Muskrat falls least they be blackballed by government. 3 the main proposal was that efficient heating for residential use are major energy savers. I did not want or had time for numerous calls from prospective residential customers seeking advise on sizes , models or procurement of such equipment. Hence my instruction not to use my company name. Nevertheless, I noticed afterward that the person who assisted with my presentation document had my company name on the back page. I have neither sought business nor received business from my efforts to bring the knowledge of the existance of this technology to the public and the power companies, and it's importance as to forecast loads for power,and to the power cost of residents in respect of the Muskrat Falls debate. In the prior months, on these postings, to inform both John Smith and Maurice Adams of the benefits of such technology, I offered to assist them in sizing and selection of a suitable system if they had doubts, and as they were heavily involved in promoting their own views on Muskrat Falls. I have offered my research to Nalcor, without charge, but they expressed no interest. You will find no advertisements my me or my company to sell these systems. The cost to an assistant to prepare the document for the PUB presentation was about 800.00 . I would estimate my time for the past 10 months, if aimed at procuring other business instead of my efforts on the public benefits of the efficiency issue, is worth not less than $100,000.00 . If I were not indepentent in fiancial means I would have been forced to abandon my efforts. My success in business is in large part from my engineering skills, to recognize good technology, to assist others to avoid misapplication, and never to mislead any one which would get both them and me in trouble. The truth of my arguments and proposals are self evident by arithemic. And the application of mathematics of energy equations, which world class manufactures use for their designs and stake their reputation on. If that is not so, other engineers in our community will and should point out my errors. I would rather be shown to be in error then be wrongly smeared by John Smith. However if he is attempting to expose any conflict of interest on my part,iIt is appropriate that he should do so. Hidden aggendas are usually a problem. And I hope John's alert DON'T result in a avalanche of calls from people wanting to buy these systems from me. I just can't deliver on that. So don't bother. I have critizied the government and power companies for not providing such valuable information to residents. My proposal calls for a separate Efficiency Corporation to seriouly help consumers on these issues. It is interesting that in recent months John Smith has used ridicule to dismiss the idea of the benefits of energy efficiency. He was silent on part 1 and part 2 letters. In this piece, putting numbers to this idea, obviously raises the bar. It seems he prefers to smear rather than dismiss. Not all are dismissing this idea. After all, it is working well in America and around the world. I doubt if John's attempt to smear will work any better than his ridicule. I beleive John knows, as I do, the truth of the efficiency argument- that is is the least cost power option.
- John Smith
- November 26, 2012 - 14:51
I think it would be imporatnt to mention as well that Winston owns a company that sells these efficient heaters that will solve all our energy needs. LOL
- November 26, 2012 - 15:46
John – this things work. They are made by large, international manufactures such as Mitsubishi, Toshiba and Panasonic (and a few others). Fortis is even aware of them, but it seems they are only promoting them in NS, not Newfoundland. From their Maritime Electric web site on efficiency, I quote: “ENERGY STAR-qualified air source heat pumps are generally around 200% efficient, meaning the space heating energy provided is double the energy used by the heat pump. By comparison, electric baseboard and electric boilers have 100% efficiency.” I believe Fortis is speaking to the Type 2 systems Winston described, not the more efficient Type 3. Again, I am a registered, practicing, professional engineering. What qualifications do you have when speaking to the validity of these systems?
- November 26, 2012 - 14:35
My in-laws installed a mini-split heat pump (type 3 described above) in their small house last Feb. They turned all their electric heaters off, set the thermostat for their heat pump to 22C (day and night) and watched their power bills for Feb, March and April drop by 35-40% each month. Their house is more comfortable than ever, and they can even use a/c in the summer if they need it. These things really work, and work well. But like all equipment, you get what you pay for, so you need to install a quality unit. They went through the federal / provincial eco grants and got $1000 back on a $3000 installation cost. With this rebate (33%), they will pay off their unit in 4-6 years (if the price of power stayed constant). Note the federal program has since been cancelled and the provincial grant caps at $500. I am a professional engineer and I just had this type of heat pump installed in my 4 bedroom house last week. So far so go, but I’ll have to wait until Jan and Feb before I see what type of impact it has had on my power bills. I’ve spoken to some of the refrigeration contractors in the city, and they are installing more and more of these units all the time. Just as people switched from wood and oil heat to electric over the last 20 years, they are going start switching from electric to mini-split heat pumps.
- Virginia Waters
- November 26, 2012 - 13:43
Nowhere, Smitty, in his letter does Adams suggest turning down the heat as a solution to our energy needs. But of course it's so much easier to ridicule the messenger than refute the facts. It would not surprise me if you are - as some have suggested - a Steve Kent or some other piss-ass power-hungry wannabe but I take some comfort from the knowledge that after the next election, if not before then, we will discover who it is that NALCOR and the Dunderdale government have been paying to spread their Muskrat propaganda.
- John Smith
- November 26, 2012 - 12:46
Now there's an intelligent answer to our coming energy needs...let's punish people for turning up the heat...give me a break.