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  • Alex
    June 27, 2013 - 12:51

    I'd separate from Canada in a heartbeat. Canadians actively discriminate against Newfoundlanders on a daily basis through political, social, and economic mediums.

  • NL_Expatriate
    July 02, 2010 - 13:35

    No national PUPPET party of the Upper/Lower Canada majority will ever back Newfoundland and Labradors 1.5% minority if and when the ROC doesnt support it. Its called the national PROXY party line or Tyranny of the majority in our systemically flawed political system.

    To paraphrase President Clinton's campaign manager It's the political system stupid!

    EQUALITY OR EXIT!

  • g-man
    July 02, 2010 - 13:34

    we already have six liberals in the house..now lets try to convince these so called liberal reps to move over to the nl.party..get danny to promote the cause..he[danny]almost ousted harper in the last election..steve harper is a bonehead..

  • Angelica
    July 02, 2010 - 13:34

    Baker is NOT promoting separation for his province, simply PREDICTING that separatist sentiment will rise if the federal government continues to penalize Newfoundland...

    Don't shoot the messenger!

  • Funky
    July 02, 2010 - 13:34

    Cathy...it is fact. Before the commission of govt, which helped generate the surplus you so strongly like to point out...the country of Newfoundland was broke. The commission was created to give the country a break from politics and the leaders which had run us into the ground. It was created because we were broke and after the commission (caretaker unelected govt) was in power for a few years, a surplus was generated.

  • R
    July 02, 2010 - 13:33

    In a nutshell, NL was accepted into Confederation because Ottawa carefully calculated it could get more out of it than it would have to put into it. And Ottawa was right. Again, we let someone else sell our natural resources rather than do it ourselves. Now answer this, do you make more or less profit when you cut out the middleman ?

  • Paul
    July 02, 2010 - 13:33

    FM. You have this terrible way of decrying things fact when they are mere opinions or partial facts. Usually when someone keeps saying things like, the fact is, these are the facts , but then don't provide them or are just plain wrong it misleads others into maybe thinking they are facts when they are not. Or maybe they bear some amount of truth. But to say it was just the commission that resurrected us to a surplus fails to realize that we were broke due to the worldwide depression and that amongst all the colonies only Nfld had to pay back war debts to Britain. Also that WWII was good for resource prices, like fish. But we did have some unreal sleavines running Nfld at the time, but those days are also past.

  • Sid
    July 02, 2010 - 13:33

    AC seems to have the mainlands stereotypical and ignorant view of our place within Canada. That's the very attitude that's fueling separation talk and why people here are so tired of being talked down to as if we were ungrateful children. Who cares what Canada thinks anymore? Enough is enough.

  • Proud to be here
    July 02, 2010 - 13:32

    George was obviously voicing the frustation many of us feel after the childish retaliation from Harper when Danny hurt his feelings. It only gets worse. Anyone who watched the news saw that moron, Mike Duffy spewing more garbage about the province. He went from journalist to clown as soon as he entered the senate. Job for life and no responsibility for his actions. I wish he would separate.

  • Herb
    July 02, 2010 - 13:32

    That's the way to go AC. Stand up for all the screwing we get. Don't let anyone suggest that we want to be an equal partner in Canada and how dare our premier suggest that we want to be treated like other Canadians. Don't let it be said that we want to be victims of fairness. Rather give it to us again up the wahzoo.

  • It's
    July 02, 2010 - 13:32

    Well, Danny, can we do it? Even if we can't go it alone, can we join another country at least? A country with big guns, we can point them west just for defense. Canada never did want us, which is quite evident in a lot of conversations that we all encounter. I don't care for them either. They have taken or given away our resources to a dangerous point. Even the most nationally-recognized newspaper, The Globe and Mail, constantly ridicules us. I've had enough. Is it possible?

  • Si
    July 02, 2010 - 13:32

    Tim from St. John's just proved my point with his silly comments.

    As for GST and so on, don't need them, never did, never will. Like so many other Newfoundlanders I worked and paid my way in life without any government support. So mind you mouth little boy, you know not what you speak about. So tell me Timmy boy, how does it feel to be talked down to?

  • Barry
    July 02, 2010 - 13:31

    Us nf's have sat back for way toooooooo long and watched the rest of Canada prosper on the backs of hard working Islanders. With a two faced PM in power someone has to standup and make them take notice. I to love Canada, but to continue under this PC party is embarassing. Why not show Harper? Vie la NL!!!!!!!!!. Maybe we should join our french neighbours in St. Pierre.

  • Richard
    July 02, 2010 - 13:31

    Why is it that those individuals most eager to push this silly notion are those who have lived a life on the taxpayer teet? When the likes of George Baker and Bill Rowe and the rest of the lunatics running the asylum are willing to give up their cushy public pensions, then maybe I'll separate from Canada and give up the benefits of mine. But not a moment sooner. Hypocrites.

  • Tim
    July 02, 2010 - 13:31

    Sorry Sibi, I paid more then my fair share and have never obtained the same GST credit that some now want to take from those that have little income.

    Please let me know when you are getting ready to pull the plug so that I can recover my investments in the province(fake wannabe country) prior to heading to the real Canada where people have the option to get ahead.

    When the island is invaded and taken over to be used as a prison please remember you had the chance to get out with your shirt but thought you would stay and remain just as an inmate.

    Who and what will you offer the worlds economy? Where is the Army of Newfoundland. Do not have the population to defend from much more then the common cold. And that would be an effort on the best days.

  • Manny
    July 02, 2010 - 13:31

    To Lloyd from Labrador: If NL has been sucking so much money out of Labrador for so long, why is the province 12 billion in debt. You guys need to give it a break. This problem is not a simple as it seems. There are numerous communities on the island and coastal labrador without any real employment. That is just a small part of the provinces problems. Also, I seriously doubt that most Labradorians would want to stay with Canada if NL separated. OH shoot, silly me. Then you would have all the profit from Churchill Falls to yourselves, come 2041.

    Give up the BS. If you feel the island part of the province is doing so well, why don't you live there?

  • Paul
    July 02, 2010 - 13:31

    To Lloyd: OK, exact numbers weren't the real concept. Would have been more accurate and to the point just to say european descendents to the larger degree. I can appreciate the concept of not having the decision-making ability in your region. But that is the same situation almost everywhere. The people of the Baie Verte Pen get no special compensation for gold from Nugget Pond or other mines. Others get logging permits for wood for CB mill in the Hampden region that benefits no one local to their land. The same problem I found in Chile where most wealth is created in the north but run by central populations. Australia vs Western Australia is the same argument. And Nfld has the same issue with Canada. All these are a matter of scale. If Lab were on it's own I'm sure you'd hear the same complaints from one area that is sick of letting another control the cash that their area produces.

  • Janet
    July 02, 2010 - 13:30

    Judging by Tony's strong remarks, it appears that George Baker isn't the only person in the province who feels that way.

    It would be interesting to find out how many others share his opinion.

  • Funky
    July 02, 2010 - 13:30

    I'll separate on one condition...no taxes.

  • Andre
    July 02, 2010 - 13:30

    I have always respected Mr Baker,that respect just quadropled, Thank you Mr Baker for saying what a very high % of people in NL are thinking, & would love to see. Good Job!!!

  • robert
    July 02, 2010 - 13:30

    i agree with mr baker i would rather seperate and starve than stay apart of canada!!!

  • NL_Expatriate
    July 02, 2010 - 13:29

    Newfoundland and Labrador (national) Energy Plan 2

    Lets put this in perspective for the rest of Canada, at $1.5 billion, thats about $3,000 worth of extra debt every man, woman and child in Newfoundland and Labrador will have thrust on their back by Stephen Harper and his vindictive government on top of the highest per capita provincial debt in the country.

    The rest of Canada seems to see this as a bit of a side show, but if they were taking the hit would they be crying foul? You bet they would.

    If a hit of $3,000 each was taken by the other province, lets see what the calculations would show.

    For Ontario the figure $36.48 billion flows from the 2006 census and the 3k each for Harper.
    Quebec takes a $22.64 billion hypothetical swipe from the feds.

    British Columbia would see $12.34 billion extracted from its budget.

    Alberta, the prime ministers home province, would feel the $9.87 billion pinch.

    A $3.45 billion swat at Manitoba wouldnt go over well.

    Saskatchewan would find a $2.90 billion addition to its debt painful.

    Nova Scotia would likely balk at the $2.74 billion hit.

    New Brunswicks share of $2.20 billion would definitely hurt.

    Prince Edward Islands $3,000 per capita adds up to .41 billion.

    Add in the swipe at the Territories and the federal treasury stands to swell by about $95 billion.

    Would that cause a stir? It would sure wipe out the deficit.

  • Bruce
    July 02, 2010 - 13:27

    I strongly agree with Mr. Baker. Newfoundland and Labrador needs to rattle a few cages up along. We are taken for granted long enough. Our history as a distinct society, our tremendous abundance of natural resources, our unique geographic location are being dismissed because we let it. We have been mismanaged by our lack of strong leadership seance confederation. It's only now in my life time that I can finally see our people thinking the whole formula for this confederation needs to change. I am glad that people like Danny Williams, George Baker and some others are now starting to spread their enlightenment.

    Bruce

  • Don
    July 02, 2010 - 13:27

    Go George. I'm with you. Let's get out while we have the resources before Harper STEAL'S these away----like he's stole everything else.

  • W
    July 02, 2010 - 13:27

    I'm with George. We pay our fair share per capita to Canada..............oil, fish, Iron Ore, Nickel, Copper, HYdro Electricity..........imagine if we could keep it all.

    It certainly can't get much worse.

    I don't think Harper would like to see a referendum.

    P.S. I love Canada but if Harper is controlling it..............he'll destroy it too.

  • MUN Student
    July 02, 2010 - 13:27

    Count me in George.
    Your views are valid and have been for a long time now. It's time to shake the Canadian cobweds off Newfoundland and Labrador and start the debate.

  • Short
    July 02, 2010 - 13:26

    I'm sick of Ontario and Quebec running this country. Every single budget bows to them, handing over the majority while the remainder of Canada fights for scraps. Sure, just this week we had an Ontario MP looking to shut down a Newfoundland industry, sealing. Imagine the outrage if NL proposed a bill to shut down all auto plants in Ontario! Harper made a very telling statement before the last election, 'We don't need NL to get elected'. And it's true, there is no equal representation in this country. NL doesn't matter one bit since Ontario and Quebec have all the seats and all the power. I guess the people of this province relish the fact they can get the scraps of central Canada!

  • Neil
    July 02, 2010 - 13:26

    I hope all of Canada doesn't think that George Baker is speaking for all NL'ers. Most don't even want to admit he's from here.

  • Maurice E.
    July 02, 2010 - 13:26

    We dont need others to do us in we do it to ourselves.

    How can six Newfoundland and Labrador Liberal MPs --- who were elected to represent the interests of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, vote with --- and remain with --- a party that is supporting a federal government decision to take $1.6 billion dollars from their constituents --- constituents that need better roads, better health care, better water and sewer systems, better schools for their children --- and on and on it goes?

    It boggles my mind how they can call themselves Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. We don't need Harper to do us in --- we do it to ourselves.

    Recent events in Ottawa show that we cannot rely on so-called national political parties to stand up for Newfoundland and Labrador.

    As evidenced by the Liberal Partys refusal to stand up for Newfoundland and Labrador, so-called national parties now support each other as dictated by the needs of the region that they represent.

    The Conservatives take care of the West, the Liberals (as evidenced by the budget) take care of Ontario, and the Bloc Quebecois is taking care of Quebec.

    Who then is taking care of and who represents Newfoundland and Labrador?

    Are we content to be recipients of Stevie's vindictiveness --- or Iggy's approval for our NL members to vote in our own best interest?

    Newfoundlanders and Labradorians are more independent than that. We deserve better representation than that.

    In future, majority governments are likely to be few and far between.

    Accordingly, it is time to stop electing MPs to a party that is not willing --- substantively so --- to stand up for Newfoundland and Labrador.

    Otherwise --- we dont need others to do us in we do it to ourselves.

  • leo
    July 02, 2010 - 13:26

    I have to give George Baker credit for speaking out,after all we have been treated unfairly by Mr. Harper, as for separating i'm sure long thought would have to be given to that, then on the other hand we have been held ransom by Quebec for years reguarding transmission lines through quebec for future power, what has the Federal Government done about that. Its been an uphill battle for NL from day one.

  • Graham
    July 02, 2010 - 13:25

    Funky Monkey, the same can be said about any other country/province where greed/corruption was involved. It still happens today in Ottawa, hence this entire discussion. I think many people here realize the POTENTIAL we have as a province to successfully go it alone especially given the higher transparency rate in politics 60 years on. But I suppose you think we'd still have the exact same political systems we and the rest of Canada had 60 years ago. Time to change your negative thinking my friend, and realize time would not have left us behind. Indeed we would have, like all other places, made progress in the advancement of our civlization. It's a very normal process which exists everywhere. Show me ONE place on this planet which has been perfect from the start. But if we had remained independent, I would LOVE to see where we'd be today. But I'm sure you'd think the crowd in Sin Jahn's would still be pulling the wool over the baymen's eyes and robbing them. Think again my friend. I'm quite sure things would not be as dire as you infer.

  • Graham
    July 02, 2010 - 13:25

    Once a man is down, keep him down, has been the motto of the Feds against NL since NL joined confederation. If you look rationally at it, our years of high unemployment and transfer payments have been CAUSED by the rape of NL by Ottawa. Get rid of the resource-robbing parasite, ie Ottawa, and we'd rise to the occasion and prosper. We entered confederation with a SURPLUS despite having suffered massive manpower losses during our volunteer years fighting the wars in Europe. That says a lot. After confederation we've been kept in poverty. I wonder why that is ? No brainer - Ottawa. Some of you people do not know your NL history very well ( Nasty Nate ) and have put the cart before the horse. We've been robbed of much more than what we've ever received. If we had control of ALL our resources since confederation up to today, we'd have NEVER been on the Feds teet. The Feds have beaten us into submission and dependence - what countries do that today ? Unbelievable.


    We could separate and join a GRATEFUL country, or remain independent and after a few years develop our own industries, defence and infrastructure.


    We vote every few years to determine our leaders. Why not do the same every few years to see what the population says about our sovereignty ? Is it not even MORE important ?


    I SUPPORT SEPARATISM

  • Funky
    July 02, 2010 - 13:25

    What if this debate did go anywhere and Labrador, which is a very distinct part of the province and country, with it's own recognizable identity (as I have many friends from there and they consider themselves Labradorians and not Newfoundlanders) decided they wanted no part of separation from Canada and wanted to stay. It's about as possible as Newfoundland fighting for separation. If Labrador went it's own way, the province as we know it today would be ridiculously screwed. I don't think we recognize on the island how important (unbelievable importance the minieral and hydro assets) Labrador has meant to the rest of the province. In reality, we have been sucking Labrador dry of resources much the same way we b***h about the rest of Canada doing to our whole province.

  • Sandra
    July 02, 2010 - 13:25

    Funkley Monkey needs to read this...

    http://www.heritage.nf.ca/law/econ_impacts.html

    ...to gain perspective on NL's surplus and the Commission of Gov't in NL's economy. (wake up call Funkey Monkey)

    I definitely support separatism, otherwise we will always been dumped on because we are nothings to Ottawa.

  • AC
    July 02, 2010 - 13:25

    And Sid, there's nothing stereotypical or ignorant about my original post. Those are the facts. The notion of separation from Canada is incredibly short-sighted and precisely the kind of knee-jerk reaction that has gotten us into bad situations in the past. Churchill Falls, anyone?

  • Harper Fan
    July 02, 2010 - 13:24

    I am a stauch Conservative. I believe that the Conservative Party is the best option we CURRENTLY have. But, if a sepratist party came along, I would offer to run for it in an election. We already have the NL First Party, but we need something with money, more candidates, and higher profiles.

    Men, hurrah for our own native Isle, Newfoundland,
    Not a stranger shall hold one inch of her strand;
    Her face turns to Britain, her Back to the Gulf,
    Come near at your peril, Canadian Wolf!

  • John
    July 02, 2010 - 13:24

    Mr. Williams budget on ABC was 81K.
    Why those money were not used on better health care ?.

    I think AB is the the best motor of keeping Ottawa under control.

    This is because in Ottawa very few listen to NL.
    Sad but true.
    No party in Ottawa cares about NL.
    We are too small.

  • Ches
    July 02, 2010 - 13:24

    Bravo Mr. Baker.

    Name the party and let's move.

    If we are to survive we must either:
    -regain control of our Grand Banks within Canada
    or
    -regain control of our Grand Banks outside of Canada.

    If we fail to achieve this, we are doomed to oblivion and desolation.

  • James
    July 02, 2010 - 13:24

    Nfl go for it, do not hold back, and you will never regreat it, we in scotland have been screwed thoughtless since 1745 by that shower down south,as much as we try we canna shake them off, there just like S##T to a blanket.

  • Frank
    July 02, 2010 - 13:24

    Some posters have mentioned that lack of depth in leadership is a stumbling block to independence. The solution is education. It should be a priority for the province if it seriously decides to head down that road to independence.

    2049 seems like a good year to aim for.

  • Jim B
    July 02, 2010 - 13:23

    If Danny Williams said something like this, NLers would eat it up without thinking twice!

    Poor old George, no one takes him seriously. Ever.

    More seriously, comments such as these do cause one to question the calibre of individuals in the Senate (yesterday it was Mac Harb, calling for the abolishment of our seal hunt) and the fact that they really do not do much.

    Time to abolish the Senate.

  • John
    July 02, 2010 - 13:23

    Comments with a REAL name and address are worth reading; otherwise an anonymous opinion is truly worthless.

    What's everyone afraid of? Is bin Laden going to come after you?

  • Ex-Pat in Alberta
    July 02, 2010 - 13:23

    Mr. Baker should watch himself I won't want him to lose his plum job that he was appointed to. Maybe a campain ploy for if they ever make the upper house an elected group.
    Seperation very interesting... Free Newfoundland!!!

  • Josh
    July 02, 2010 - 13:22

    FINALLY! someone said it! .... remember this is just a mention of separatism ... not a plan or a formal movement.... but at least the idea is finally getting out there! and he is not alone in thinking this!!! alot of young people agree and i cant wait for the movement to start and the day we leave this sorry excuse of a country! .... when the movement starts, all the information will be put out for everyone to see that we will be better off on our own and all we need is a person to start the ball rolling and present the situation .... a valid person that will organize it .... if only danny would start preacing it... who knows maybe he will in a few years ... cant wait for the day we take down the maple leaf that symbolizes opression of a people and the raping of resources ... and raise the flag of independence

  • A
    July 02, 2010 - 13:22

    Congratulations to George Baker for calling it like it is, he's only telling the truth. My grandfather moved off the island about 50 years ago and it's becoming really tempting for me to move back to Newfoundland. Between economic success and a leadership that will actually fight for it's people. Don't let em kick you around, fight for what's yours.

    You could always end up like Nova Scotia, with a fiddling clown that sells us up river the first chance he gets.

  • Frank
    July 02, 2010 - 13:22

    Interesting to read all the comments!

    I don,t think I would return to Newfoundland and Labrador and run for The New Newfoundland And Labrador Democratic Party with a vision like Gilles Duceppe to break this great country in pieces. I fought for years against the seperatist in Quebec with the Federal and Provincial Liberals.

    I think the ghosts of Pierre Trudeau, Joey Smallwood and Paul Martin would never let me rest in peace if I ever supported seperatist views.

    I think we should call this new wave of politics the DGGHS ..Danny, George,Gilles, Harper syndrome. They are so confused as to what they want for Canada.

    Frank Blackwood

  • Ted
    July 02, 2010 - 13:22

    I totally agree with AC from St. John's. This place wouldn't last 5 minutes alone. Who would lead us? Just think of the clowns we had as premiers since confederation? I can just imagine the amount of corruption that would have ensued, not to mention that which has already taken place. A few oils bucks roll in and everyone get suddenly becomes patriotic and cocky by the rhetoric of a few pension seeking politicians whose only qualification is that they happened to have been the local school principal or hockey coach. Yeah, now there's something you can build a nation upon.

  • Lloyd
    July 02, 2010 - 13:22

    There have been moments I've been a fan of Mr. Baker. Some moments.

    Judging by commentary on the local call in shows (callers and certain host(s), perhaps even some government people, and even one or two comments here, I'd say he will help garner a little support for the idea in Newfoundland. Seems there is such a party in existence ready to serve that purpose?

    In Labrador, though, we have a little different problem. Our problem has been in getting fair treatment from the provincial government rather than from the Feds. Unlike the provincial government, we have no constitutionally guaranteed rights regarding resource extraction, disposition, or just returns, nor do we have any really say in the matter on how to rectify those issues so far.
    In 1948 Labradorians voted overwhelmingly at 80 plus percent to join Canada. If that number has changed, I'd say it has been upward.

  • Frank
    July 02, 2010 - 13:21

    This a cheap shot from George Baker who got brushed under the carpet some years ago because of his unrealistic visions. He articulates very well on what others think is best for Newfoundland and Labrador, not what George really has in mind.

    To talk about seperating from Canada is one of the most immature and unrealistic gestures a well respected politicians like George Baker could make. This would be like removing the bedrock of the Atlantic ocean, and letting the island of Newfoundland and Labrador sink beneath.

    You see, George can make remarks like this today as noone will sweep him under the carpet tomorrow. Newfoundlanders will never walk away from Canada

    Frank Blackwood

    **Formerly of Wesleyville.

  • John
    July 02, 2010 - 13:20

    Funy Monkey. The War created the surplus. It was not the Commission of Government. Don't you know that? And Newfoundland lost it independence NOT because of debt but because of ASSETS. The British wanted to control Newfoundland outright because of its war time value. We did not LOSE independence. It was STOLEN from us.

  • Nasty
    July 02, 2010 - 13:19

    Just a few simple questions and comments for Mr. Baker.

    You will be out your job since your services will no longer be required if Newfoundland was not a province or a part of Canada. Talk about shooting oneself in the proverbial foot.

    Just where is the province going to go? Who will we join to survive in the global scheme of things, Russia, Cuba? Where is our army, navy and air force to defend from the evil Canada and USA?

    What will be done to sustain the population? We know that we are not able to provide for ourselves due to location. We have no industry to provide an export commodity demanded by world markets.

    So, just where is this plan of yours or did Fabian Manning put you up to this on Dannys behalf?

  • Tim
    July 02, 2010 - 13:19

    Hey Sid, bet you can not wait for your GST cheques and tax returns. Oh thats right you are not part of Canada and do not want that anymore. Good for you. You are helping with our National Debt for not accepting the benefits that are given to all Canadians.

    Guess you will need a passport, work permit and VISA to enter Canada for work that you can not nor will not be able to obtain here then too :)

    Thought so. Lot more to this then you might think.

  • AC
    July 02, 2010 - 13:19

    Pretty embarrassing comments from Georgie here. How quickly we forget how long we, as a province, sucked the Federal government's teet--highest unemployment rate in the country, abnormally high welfare (or whatever the politically correct term is these days) rate, not to mention the endless years of receiving transfer payments as have-not province. Now that we are finally generating some revenue on our own, we have this blow-hard making us look like a bunch of ungrateful fools. Not to mention Danny running his mouth every chance he gets. We took and took and took for decades while other provinces gave. Now it's our turn the return the favour. Deal with it.

  • Sean
    July 02, 2010 - 13:19

    I'm with Baker and alot of fellow Newfoundlanders , lets get out of this crazy country we call Canada, I had to move away with my family years ago to support my family, do you think it's a better life up here than it is back home...NO it's not

    I say it's time to seperate and drop Harper like a bad habit, who needs him, Surely we would be better off on our own that we are curently. Count me in for walking in downtown Toronto holding a NL to seperate sign any day.

  • Funky
    July 02, 2010 - 13:19

    My facts are real because I say they are.

  • NL_Expatriate
    July 02, 2010 - 13:19

    Inform yourself
    Royal Commission on Newfoundland and Labrador's place in canada.
    http://www.exec.gov.nl.ca/royalcomm/

    Report on negotiations duress, conflict of interest leading up to Upper Churchill contract.
    http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~feehan/CF.pdf

    Quebec gets 2 Billion a year from Upper Churchill.
    http://www.thetelegram.com/index.cfm?sid=219507&sc=79

    Short history on Equalization/Atlantic Accord
    http://www.irpp.org/po/archive/mar07/courchene.pdf

    Great summary of Atlantic Accord/Equalization links.
    http://www.rantandroar.ca/accord.htm

    Video presentation on automatic extension renewal clause for Upper Churchill.
    http://www.mun.ca/harriscentre/Memorial_Presents/Churchill_Falls/churchill_falls_video.php

    Independent cost benefit analysis
    http://www.theindependent.ca/pdf/Cost_benefit_methodology.pdf

    This is just a primer it doesn't touch on many many other burning issues.

  • Funky
    July 02, 2010 - 13:19

    Graham? Are you serious? Your telling other people they know little about NL history?

    I think you need to brush up a little my friend. Newfoundland was always destitute. Yeah, we had a surplus when we joined confederation...sure. That's corrrect. But that came after years of commission of govt rule where we had an unelected group of indivduals running the country (mainly British citizens). Before the commission of govt was created (to give us a break from our own politicians) NL was basically bankrupt. We were screwed because of the greed and careless leadership we had in the country before that. Newfoundland was a sinking ship. Instead of a ruling class in Ottawa, we had a ruling class in St. John's which raped the rest of the provnice for their own benefit and the benefit of the capital city region (sound familiar?). There were no good times in NL my friend. Learn your own history before you start bashing the understanding of others.

    When people voted...outside of St. John's they voted overwhelmingly in favour of confederation. The only real opposition to confederation was in the St. John's area where those previously in power were afraid they were about to lose all their control. People voted in favour of confederation outside of St. John's because the leadership of Canada couldn't be any worse then the leadership of the ruling class in St. John's.

    If Newfoundland was meant to be a country, it would still be one. This separatism debate is a joke.

    And whoever mentioned the NLFirst Party should take a look at their webpage and actually listen to them. They're a group of clowns.

  • What a
    July 02, 2010 - 13:18

    So here is a little food for thought. For those that think you will be better off as a country on our own, answer these simple questions. Where are the practical jobs in this province? Why is it that this province boasts the highest unemployment rates in Canada when it has been considered to be a have province? Where are the sustainable jobs that were promised with the stimulus plans from both Danny and Stevie?

    Who are you going to sell iron ore to if the steel mills and auto plants are shutting down?
    Are we ready to pay higher tariffs on imports and exports to get our way?

    Lots of talk, but like normal no real plan or action from anyone to make anything more then a fuss over nothing.

    I would really like to see someone put out a little more then lip service for a change. People have offered to create employment in this province, yet the status quo remains where those given the grants and funding to do so use the lions share to fill their personal pockets with little thought to the rest of the people that need to survive.

    Once you get a plan and your act together the rest of the world just might take you seriously for a change. Till that time comes we will continue to live in poverty.

  • Winston
    July 02, 2010 - 13:18

    Iggy is finally right about something: this is ridiculous.

    What a fascinatingly disingenuous distinction Baker is trying to make: predicting something is the opposite of promoting it.

    Like someone else we all know, he wants to save Canada by discussing its breakup. Baker wants to promote Canadian unity so much that he must go on every media outlet in the entire country talking manically about separatism.

    The lavish media attention must be a real Lenten sacrifice for the good Senator.

  • danny
    July 02, 2010 - 13:18

    It is about time Newfoundlander's hear the truth about the discrimination bias diffarances concerning our well being. I have lived in almost every province, I have been asked for my visa by a government official, this its self tells me that our government had no interest in our province until they realized that we had enough natural resources that they could squander like our electricity, I think if one province could threaten to go it on their own, why do we accept our leader wanting to remove one of our own from government, other people seem to be aloud to speak out but when we do Stephen Harper want to shut us up, we worked hard to build this country and now we are being ripped of again. I have talked to many Newfoundlander's who thinks this would be the best for our province. then and only then we could be self sufficient, I have thrown this idea out to other countries that are interested in our resources. The Chinese, Europe, Indians, all have interest in our wealth and kindness. If our own government can't accept us for who we are well it is probably time we think of our own and separate from those who rob us and treat us different than the rest of Canada. Not everyone have seen this, it has only been since the internet came available to Newfoundlander and its people that we have a voice. If the government had it their way we would be shut out of every decision made in parliament. Danny Williams is like a god to us he is the only politician who speaks the truth, if we loose Danny our government will try and sell us out again, another thing the U.S.A. have hard liners who work with the federal politicians to buy up our oil, electricity an any thing they could get their hands on, we fought in a war against the enemy, so what makes us cowards when it comes to separation issues, We need to stand behind Danny Williams and his agenda to have a voice on the world market and it's decisions.. Yours Truly Daniel T. Duke Thursday March 5th. 2009 WE DO HAVE A VOICE SO STAND UP AND MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD!!!!!

  • Saucy Face
    July 02, 2010 - 13:17

    Vive Terra Nouveau Libre ... Or something like that:)

  • mercedes
    July 02, 2010 - 13:17

    This is the foolishest thing I've ever heard! Don't you realize that if we separated we would have to take Mr. williams along as king? He'd have even more power then! Power to stomp on anyone who is not his buddy! At least now we have token protection from the federal party becausy of that sad and haunting word; democracy!

  • Stewart
    July 02, 2010 - 13:17

    Plain and simple, Canada is the greatest country on earth. I am a proud citizen of Canada and a proud Newfoundlander, but talk of a separatist movement is ludicrous.
    Yes, fight for what is ours but remember we are a part of a bigger family that allows us to freely express our concerns and live in peace.
    I think the benefits of living in this country far outweigh the negatives.

  • John
    July 02, 2010 - 13:16

    This Newfoundlander living away from home says George Baker has it spot-on.

    The NEWFOUNDLAND BLOC in Ottawa is an excellent idea whose time has definitely come. As things stand today, the tenth province will never be treated fairly in this federation.

    It should be obvious to everyone that the louder the Quebec nationalists and separatists shout, the better they get treated by Ottawa.

  • Shannon
    July 02, 2010 - 13:16

    This talk is absolute nonsense. Danny Williams has really got people believing that Ottawa is the Evil Empire.

    I am no fan of Harper, and even less a fan of D.W. The former's tenure won't last much longer in its MINORITY state. When Iggy and Danny band together, quite possibly when Ig becomes PM, will George Baker - who's just looking for some attention again - and the rest of you separatists be crying to leave Canada, big bad evil Canada??

    Why doesn't George direct some of his vitriol towards Williams, architect of the ABC Campaign which saw us lose over a BILLION and a half dollars??

    Get a grip, folks. This misguided passion makes everything that much more appalling and ridiculous.

  • Cindy
    July 02, 2010 - 13:15

    Ottawa has never had respect for the people of NL (Newfoundland AND Labrador). Even after we sent all our men and boys to fight and die for Canada in the 2nd world war, which left our society in near ruins post war. Was this not the key factor in NL joining Canada initially? The losses we endured due to the war? Our population was devastated and as such, pinned all the hopes of a brighter and more prosperous future on Joey Smallwood's claim to a greater life through Confederation? What was there to think about back then? ...If we join Canada maybe we can eat 7 days a week! Well, it hasn't worked out to be that great a life because of confederation now has it? What do you think would have happened if NL had been in a healthier financial place post WW2? Joey Smallwood would have been KING!

    Let's see how much better off NL is after confederation...I will need your help...

    Please list 10 Great things NL has benefited from directly BECAUSE of confederation...

    1.

  • dennis
    July 02, 2010 - 13:15

    Interesting topic this, full of emotion. Can anyone actually put some numbers behind the claims that Canada has robbed Newfoundland of it wealth? If one were to total up how much went out and how much came in, who would win and who would lose.
    But, the question is, could Newfoundland go it alone? It has a moderate amount of natural resourses, but nothing that makes me think that a country could be run on it. Outside of that there is really very little industry and manufacturing, almost no agriculture, no banking, a very, very small tourist industry, a fishery that is in shambles, a small population spread out over a very big area, and a reasonably high debt. To argue that it has a great geographical location is a bit on the bizarre side. It is a big island stuck out in the middle of the North Atlantic with arguably some of the worst weather in the world. Beautiful, I admit, but all planes to North America fly over, the vast majority of ships pass right on by, and mostly people crossing the gulf are returning home for holidays. This hardly speaks of a great geographical location that is of enormous interest to, say the European Union as some have pointed out.

    It seems to me then, that the real issue is why Newfoundland politicians have so little influence in Ottawa. Obviously with a demographic model for determining numbers of MP's Newfoundland will not have many, but can they be more effective? Perhaps electing people who have strength of character and ideas that go beyond threatening to leave when things aren't going their way might be helpful.

    I shall look up the Newfoundland First - or whatever it is called. Sounds like fun.

  • On My Way
    July 02, 2010 - 13:15

    Count me down as a separtist...that is...If this BlocNL BS progresses and a separtist movement becomes more mainstream in NL, my family will be separating from NL - permanantly.

  • Funky
    July 02, 2010 - 13:15

    Spouting the same nonsense over and over again doesn't make it come true, no matter how much you want it too and no matter how much it helps your feeble argument.

  • NL_Expatriate
    July 02, 2010 - 13:14

    The Supreme Court of Canada basically said that the 'only' reason the off-shore could be considered to be owned by Canada is because of third-party international law. The court actually said that the status of these resources is very much in the hands of NL. They demonstrated their meaning by saying, and I paraphrase, 'not-with-standing international laws, NL brought those resources into Canada, and NL can take them back out'.

    So in response to this the Atlantic Accord compromise was reached. In that deal the rest of Canada gets to suck the teat of yet more of our resources. Harper has twice unilaterally violated that compromise agreement in order to suck a little more out of NL's share. Talk about bumming off the poor!

    It's our cake why shouldn't we be allowed to eat it?
    To expand on the simplistic cake/Grand Banks resources metaphor.

    Inform yourself
    Royal Commission on Newfoundland and Labrador's place in canada.
    http://www.exec.gov.nl.ca/royalcomm/

  • Looking
    July 02, 2010 - 13:14

    Still see no answers to the questions. Where are the jobs, where is the exports, where are the buyers? Who is going to pay for this dream?

    Where is the plan? All talk no action. Thats been and will continue to be the problem here till we get our acts together.

  • Lloyd
    July 02, 2010 - 13:14

    Paul from StJohns writes:
    As for Labrador, most people there are transplanted islanders anyway. The reason there is development there is due to the people who moved up there and did it, and they are basically the same people who live on the island. unquote.

    Most people? Nearly half the people the people in Labrador are Aboriginals.
    Many of the people are descended from people who came here directly from Europe and other parts of what is now Canada. Many, not most, or their original families are are from Newfoundland. Most of them now consider Labrador their home and native land. From my own experience and observation, many if not most of them realize the unfair treatment at the hands of the provincial government.
    Most people also realize that the LACK of development here is because WE don't get to make our own developmental decisions and suffer the losses because most of OUR resources have gone to benefit others - at the HAND of the PROVINCIAL government who has constitutional control of all land based resources.

  • Jack
    July 02, 2010 - 13:14

    What an insult to Canadians. Here is a Canadian Senator appointed to such a prestigious position advocating for separation! Go back to the open line shows and getting people riled up over the price of turnips. On the way out leave your Canadian senator salary and pension.

  • Townie
    July 02, 2010 - 13:14

    I'm behind you all the way George baker seperate the Canadian Government screwed us enough the republic of Nf Priminster Danny all the way.

  • Truman
    July 02, 2010 - 13:14

    no surplus now funkey monkey or whatever your foolish name is

  • kirby
    July 02, 2010 - 13:13

    i see this as something akin to a chest found in an attic...a BOX if you please...and many 'newfoundlings' are overjoyed at the prospects it may hold.
    as a labrador native,i am not anxious,because we know what is in the box for our Native Peoples...ORIGINAL JURISDICTION is just one issue that springs to mind.
    open it up...'newly founde'...landers.

  • Mike
    July 02, 2010 - 13:13

    If you were taking a poll of the comments above - 16 comments for / 17 comments against at this point (approx. 50% for / 50% against).

    I do believe there is a growing sentiment towards our place in Canada - now whether that justifies a separatist movement - time will tell.

  • Dumbfounded
    July 02, 2010 - 13:13

    Who is this idiot AC ?? Honestly do you really believe what your saying. Unreal the stupidity that writes on this forum.

  • AC
    July 02, 2010 - 13:13

    Jimmy, Alberta was generally against Federal 'intereference' long before the profits of the oilsands, back to when agriculture was their primary revenue source. Even during their most difficult times, during the oil collapse of the early 1980s, they still only hit 10% unemployment, and as a province have not received anywhere close to the amount of Federal money that Newfoundland has over the decades. It's not uncommon at all for profitable businesses to detest the Government due to regulation and taxation. My point is that Newfoundland has taken far too much to be suddenly spewing separation rhetoric now that we have had a couple of prosperous years.

  • John
    July 02, 2010 - 13:12

    George Baker is a fool,what more than that can I say.

  • Funky
    July 02, 2010 - 13:12

    John...if I tell people my name, people will know who I am.

  • Mike
    July 02, 2010 - 13:11

    Baker refers to Harpers vendetta against the province but strained relations with Ottawa are nothing new regardless of which party is in power. If we, or any other province, wanted to take our ball and go home every time we felt the game was being played unfairly, Canada would not exist. But Canada does exist warts and all.

    Every province has a beef with the Federal government. However, not every province wants to go it alone. Sure there are fringe elements whose sole purpose is to separate but they are viewed with contempt or indifference. The Bloc Quebecois is as good example as any.

    But Canada is a democracy and people are free to express their opinions just as George Baker has done. We can include comments from Mike Duffy, Globe and Mail editorials and infamous newfie jokes. People can say what they wish. Its a free country. But we are just as free to agree or disagree with what they say and freely express our opinions without fear of retribution.

    Eventually Harper will be gone as Prime Minister, but problems with Ottawa will remain. Our relationship is tenuous at best and in all likelihood, will continue to be that way. But that doesnt mean we have to pack up house and leave. We offer a lot to the country, and it offers a lot to us. And as proud as we are to call ourselves Newfoundlanders, we should be just as proud to call ourselves Canadians.

  • Frank
    July 02, 2010 - 13:11

    I have to agree with Neil from Newfoundland. George Baker doesn,t speak for all Newfoundlanders.

    He likes to stir up a lot of dust like a crackie having a dump on a sandpile and then runs back home with his tail between the hind legs ,begging for a reward as it didn,t pee on the carpet.

    I don't think George will have the support of our younger politicians in Ottawa today.
    Frank Blackwood

  • AC
    July 02, 2010 - 13:10

    This will be my last post on this thread, just wanted to respond to some of the laughable claims about not knowing history. We may have entered into Confederation in 1949 with a surplus, but what didn't we have? Well, let's see... 50% of the population had no electricity. No connecting highway system. No child allowances, extremely high unemployment, poor health care and virtually no social assistance programs. It's a give and take scenario. They benefitted from our natural resources and we benefitted from their infrastructure improvements and social programs. It's easy to blame Ottawa for everything, but if we'd had one or two even HALF capable premiers over the years, who knows where we'd be?

  • Cathy
    July 02, 2010 - 13:10

    In the 60 years since confederation, despite having lost most of our men during the wars, we still had a surplus like another commenter mentioned. If we had stayed independent, we would have developed all of our own infrastructure WITHOUT outside so-called help. To AC, around confederation (1949 just after WW2), the whole world had high unemployment, basically NO social assistance programs and poor health care. As a matter of fact, in case you haven't noticed, we STILL have poor health care, poor social assistance programs and moderately high unemployment, and we're now set to lose even more thanks to the hostililty of our Prime Minister towards us. If we had control over our own resources, we would have been much further ahead than we are right now. Try and refute that. Talk sense man.

  • Jimmy
    July 02, 2010 - 13:10

    To AC from St. John's: Point taken. Perhaps I should take a closer look at Canadian history.

  • Barry
    July 02, 2010 - 13:10

    Robert if you dont like it move to Quebec you would fit right in. thats Dannys next plan. He will become emperor of Quebec and Newfoundland.

  • Mark
    July 02, 2010 - 13:10

    Cathy - 'we would have developed all of our own infrastructure'?

    With what? Seriously - every bit of infrastructure was built by the British who were broke and tired of paying for us, and in later years by the temporary military presence. After Confederation, billions flowed from Ottawa to get our roads, schools and hospitals up to snuff. Without this money, dear Cathy, please tell me who the heck would have built our infrastruture? The fish merchants? Not bloody likely.

    Are there problems in our federation? Absolutely. But anyone who believes Newfoundland would have been better off on its own after 1949 needs to see a doctor.

  • Tony
    July 02, 2010 - 13:09

    Seems like George has hurt Canada's feelings.

    I'm surprised that it has taken this long for someone in his position to say it since he's only saying what most here are thinking anyway. AND yes all you lCanada lovers, I feel that I am speaking for the very patient and silent majority within Newfoundland and Labrador. It's time for all of us to reconsider this so called democracy called Canada.

    Good for you George. Nice to see someone here who's not afraid to speak the truth. Time for others to follow his lead.

  • Common Sense
    July 02, 2010 - 13:09

    For those of you who believe NL would be better off as its own state, let me just say two things

    1 - MHA Spending Scandal - you think that was bad, imagine what would it be like then, you would have every politician scrambling to steal every dollar they could get their hands on

    2 - Crap Health System becomes even crappier.

    Yeah, go separatism!!!! Whatever.

    Nuff Said

  • Paul
    July 02, 2010 - 13:09

    Great to see how many people have had enough and really look at separation as a viable option. Too bad people like AC don't know anything about history. He says we've received so much, but fails to understand that we have given more than we've ever received and that continues today.

    As for others who wonder who we will link up with, the answer in no one. We'll be fine by ourselves.

    As for Labrador, most people there are transplanted islanders anyway. The reason there is development there is due to the people who moved up there and did it, and they are basically the same people who live on the island. It's just a bit hard to provide the infrastructure to such a large place with such a small population. But it seems to progressing gradually as I've seen in my time up there recently. If we had been our own country I don't think Labrador would now be underdeveloped. We'd have loads of Upper Churchill bucks, would be shipping out steel or cars, not raw ore, fueled by Churchill power, access to forests able to be provided. The fact that the entire province has been impoverished by Canada means it's hard to provide proper service easily and the smaller and more distant populations are more likely to suffer most. But we still need to stick together.

  • Jesse
    July 02, 2010 - 13:09

    As a Labradorian, I find Newfoundland Separatism funny. Possibly because of the assumption that Labradorians would want to go too.

    And the kvetching about the federal government doing things to Newfoundland, and ignoring that the provincial government does the same to Labrador. Like the plan to ignore every single community on the coast of Labrador should the Lower Churchill project ever finish and the power routed to the island. And the hand wringing over how running those power lines through a precious park in Newfoundland will destroy its scenic beauty (while ignoring what it will do to the landscape of Labrador).

    Those who live in glass houses with bongs lying around shouldn't whine about their neighbour's drinking habits.

  • Gerry
    July 02, 2010 - 13:09

    I have to laugh about the PC member getting offended by George Baker , and wanting him fired , and saying we cant form a seperatist group, what does he think Quebec is??? This is the only country in the world that would allow a sitting party whose soul purpose is to seperate and their own interest looked after,anywhere else they would be outlawed.In the meen time George Baker is right ,i'am teaching my son about politics and how we've been treated by Ottawa, If i had my way we would leave now , Think the USA wouldn't want us?? We've been held down long enough Stevie!!!

  • Jimmy
    July 02, 2010 - 13:09

    To AC from St. John's: Look at your Canadian history. Alberta was once a have-not province. And see how quickly they tried to turn on Confederation when the oil sands money started to pad the accounts. Even the current prime minister once advocated a 'firewall' to isolate Alberta from the rest of Canada.

  • NL_Expatriate
    July 02, 2010 - 13:09

    Equality or Exit!

  • 2cents
    July 02, 2010 - 13:08

    Sepratisim is always in the back of many people's heads here in this province. I myself would support a sepratist party. Why is it ok for Quebec to have a Bloc Quebcois but not Newfoundland and Labrador? Frankly I am sick and tired of the double standards that the present ruling federal party hold so near and dear.

  • Willy
    July 02, 2010 - 13:08

    I'm a bit surprised by Sean Hurleys comment about it being a better life in NL than he's able to find in Brampton . Would you rather have your family on Pogey, or maybe you miss your Skidoo or the Quad . Maybe you miss loafing around on the Wharf with your hands in your pockets complaining why your cheque isn't in the mail yet . My friend , that's your opinion and you're entitled to it , but don't include me and the thousands of others who left for a better life . I wouldn't trade my position for anything . Yep , i retired at 55 and still live in Ontario . I've got what i need and am satisfied .

  • Roxanne
    July 02, 2010 - 13:08

    I am ashamed to be a Canadian living in Newfoundland, I would rather be called an American, even when the likes of Bush was President.

    Our only hope is we take some stand and maybe Baker is right, a NL Bloc may be the way to go. I would gladly give up my $30 GST to have my Newfoundland dignity back.

    George Baker, if you want to do this I think you will have a following, and a huge one. We are tired of being the laughing stock of Canada.

    Lets see whose resources would suffer the most if we pulled out of Canada.

  • Michael
    July 02, 2010 - 13:08

    Just because we would not be a part of Canada does not mean that we would have to be desolate. Due to our resources, econemy and geographic location we would be very attractive to the European Union and the U.S.

    We will never be treated like equals in Canada because we don't have enough votes and we don't share the same needs as the majority of Canadian provinces. To stay in power, politicians need to please the majority. Unfortunately, we will never be the majority.

  • NL_Expatriate
    July 01, 2010 - 20:25

    No national PUPPET party of the Upper/Lower Canada majority will ever back Newfoundland and Labradors 1.5% minority if and when the ROC doesnt support it. Its called the national PROXY party line or Tyranny of the majority in our systemically flawed political system.

    To paraphrase President Clinton's campaign manager It's the political system stupid!

    EQUALITY OR EXIT!

  • g-man
    July 01, 2010 - 20:23

    we already have six liberals in the house..now lets try to convince these so called liberal reps to move over to the nl.party..get danny to promote the cause..he[danny]almost ousted harper in the last election..steve harper is a bonehead..

  • Angelica
    July 01, 2010 - 20:23

    Baker is NOT promoting separation for his province, simply PREDICTING that separatist sentiment will rise if the federal government continues to penalize Newfoundland...

    Don't shoot the messenger!

  • Funky
    July 01, 2010 - 20:23

    Cathy...it is fact. Before the commission of govt, which helped generate the surplus you so strongly like to point out...the country of Newfoundland was broke. The commission was created to give the country a break from politics and the leaders which had run us into the ground. It was created because we were broke and after the commission (caretaker unelected govt) was in power for a few years, a surplus was generated.

  • R
    July 01, 2010 - 20:22

    In a nutshell, NL was accepted into Confederation because Ottawa carefully calculated it could get more out of it than it would have to put into it. And Ottawa was right. Again, we let someone else sell our natural resources rather than do it ourselves. Now answer this, do you make more or less profit when you cut out the middleman ?

  • Paul
    July 01, 2010 - 20:22

    FM. You have this terrible way of decrying things fact when they are mere opinions or partial facts. Usually when someone keeps saying things like, the fact is, these are the facts , but then don't provide them or are just plain wrong it misleads others into maybe thinking they are facts when they are not. Or maybe they bear some amount of truth. But to say it was just the commission that resurrected us to a surplus fails to realize that we were broke due to the worldwide depression and that amongst all the colonies only Nfld had to pay back war debts to Britain. Also that WWII was good for resource prices, like fish. But we did have some unreal sleavines running Nfld at the time, but those days are also past.

  • Sid
    July 01, 2010 - 20:22

    AC seems to have the mainlands stereotypical and ignorant view of our place within Canada. That's the very attitude that's fueling separation talk and why people here are so tired of being talked down to as if we were ungrateful children. Who cares what Canada thinks anymore? Enough is enough.

  • Proud to be here
    July 01, 2010 - 20:21

    George was obviously voicing the frustation many of us feel after the childish retaliation from Harper when Danny hurt his feelings. It only gets worse. Anyone who watched the news saw that moron, Mike Duffy spewing more garbage about the province. He went from journalist to clown as soon as he entered the senate. Job for life and no responsibility for his actions. I wish he would separate.

  • Herb
    July 01, 2010 - 20:20

    That's the way to go AC. Stand up for all the screwing we get. Don't let anyone suggest that we want to be an equal partner in Canada and how dare our premier suggest that we want to be treated like other Canadians. Don't let it be said that we want to be victims of fairness. Rather give it to us again up the wahzoo.

  • It's
    July 01, 2010 - 20:20

    Well, Danny, can we do it? Even if we can't go it alone, can we join another country at least? A country with big guns, we can point them west just for defense. Canada never did want us, which is quite evident in a lot of conversations that we all encounter. I don't care for them either. They have taken or given away our resources to a dangerous point. Even the most nationally-recognized newspaper, The Globe and Mail, constantly ridicules us. I've had enough. Is it possible?

  • Si
    July 01, 2010 - 20:20

    Tim from St. John's just proved my point with his silly comments.

    As for GST and so on, don't need them, never did, never will. Like so many other Newfoundlanders I worked and paid my way in life without any government support. So mind you mouth little boy, you know not what you speak about. So tell me Timmy boy, how does it feel to be talked down to?

  • Barry
    July 01, 2010 - 20:20

    Us nf's have sat back for way toooooooo long and watched the rest of Canada prosper on the backs of hard working Islanders. With a two faced PM in power someone has to standup and make them take notice. I to love Canada, but to continue under this PC party is embarassing. Why not show Harper? Vie la NL!!!!!!!!!. Maybe we should join our french neighbours in St. Pierre.

  • Richard
    July 01, 2010 - 20:20

    Why is it that those individuals most eager to push this silly notion are those who have lived a life on the taxpayer teet? When the likes of George Baker and Bill Rowe and the rest of the lunatics running the asylum are willing to give up their cushy public pensions, then maybe I'll separate from Canada and give up the benefits of mine. But not a moment sooner. Hypocrites.

  • Tim
    July 01, 2010 - 20:19

    Sorry Sibi, I paid more then my fair share and have never obtained the same GST credit that some now want to take from those that have little income.

    Please let me know when you are getting ready to pull the plug so that I can recover my investments in the province(fake wannabe country) prior to heading to the real Canada where people have the option to get ahead.

    When the island is invaded and taken over to be used as a prison please remember you had the chance to get out with your shirt but thought you would stay and remain just as an inmate.

    Who and what will you offer the worlds economy? Where is the Army of Newfoundland. Do not have the population to defend from much more then the common cold. And that would be an effort on the best days.

  • Manny
    July 01, 2010 - 20:19

    To Lloyd from Labrador: If NL has been sucking so much money out of Labrador for so long, why is the province 12 billion in debt. You guys need to give it a break. This problem is not a simple as it seems. There are numerous communities on the island and coastal labrador without any real employment. That is just a small part of the provinces problems. Also, I seriously doubt that most Labradorians would want to stay with Canada if NL separated. OH shoot, silly me. Then you would have all the profit from Churchill Falls to yourselves, come 2041.

    Give up the BS. If you feel the island part of the province is doing so well, why don't you live there?

  • Paul
    July 01, 2010 - 20:19

    To Lloyd: OK, exact numbers weren't the real concept. Would have been more accurate and to the point just to say european descendents to the larger degree. I can appreciate the concept of not having the decision-making ability in your region. But that is the same situation almost everywhere. The people of the Baie Verte Pen get no special compensation for gold from Nugget Pond or other mines. Others get logging permits for wood for CB mill in the Hampden region that benefits no one local to their land. The same problem I found in Chile where most wealth is created in the north but run by central populations. Australia vs Western Australia is the same argument. And Nfld has the same issue with Canada. All these are a matter of scale. If Lab were on it's own I'm sure you'd hear the same complaints from one area that is sick of letting another control the cash that their area produces.

  • Janet
    July 01, 2010 - 20:18

    Judging by Tony's strong remarks, it appears that George Baker isn't the only person in the province who feels that way.

    It would be interesting to find out how many others share his opinion.

  • Funky
    July 01, 2010 - 20:18

    I'll separate on one condition...no taxes.

  • Andre
    July 01, 2010 - 20:18

    I have always respected Mr Baker,that respect just quadropled, Thank you Mr Baker for saying what a very high % of people in NL are thinking, & would love to see. Good Job!!!

  • robert
    July 01, 2010 - 20:17

    i agree with mr baker i would rather seperate and starve than stay apart of canada!!!

  • NL_Expatriate
    July 01, 2010 - 20:17

    Newfoundland and Labrador (national) Energy Plan 2

    Lets put this in perspective for the rest of Canada, at $1.5 billion, thats about $3,000 worth of extra debt every man, woman and child in Newfoundland and Labrador will have thrust on their back by Stephen Harper and his vindictive government on top of the highest per capita provincial debt in the country.

    The rest of Canada seems to see this as a bit of a side show, but if they were taking the hit would they be crying foul? You bet they would.

    If a hit of $3,000 each was taken by the other province, lets see what the calculations would show.

    For Ontario the figure $36.48 billion flows from the 2006 census and the 3k each for Harper.
    Quebec takes a $22.64 billion hypothetical swipe from the feds.

    British Columbia would see $12.34 billion extracted from its budget.

    Alberta, the prime ministers home province, would feel the $9.87 billion pinch.

    A $3.45 billion swat at Manitoba wouldnt go over well.

    Saskatchewan would find a $2.90 billion addition to its debt painful.

    Nova Scotia would likely balk at the $2.74 billion hit.

    New Brunswicks share of $2.20 billion would definitely hurt.

    Prince Edward Islands $3,000 per capita adds up to .41 billion.

    Add in the swipe at the Territories and the federal treasury stands to swell by about $95 billion.

    Would that cause a stir? It would sure wipe out the deficit.

  • Bruce
    July 01, 2010 - 20:15

    I strongly agree with Mr. Baker. Newfoundland and Labrador needs to rattle a few cages up along. We are taken for granted long enough. Our history as a distinct society, our tremendous abundance of natural resources, our unique geographic location are being dismissed because we let it. We have been mismanaged by our lack of strong leadership seance confederation. It's only now in my life time that I can finally see our people thinking the whole formula for this confederation needs to change. I am glad that people like Danny Williams, George Baker and some others are now starting to spread their enlightenment.

    Bruce

  • Don
    July 01, 2010 - 20:15

    Go George. I'm with you. Let's get out while we have the resources before Harper STEAL'S these away----like he's stole everything else.

  • W
    July 01, 2010 - 20:15

    I'm with George. We pay our fair share per capita to Canada..............oil, fish, Iron Ore, Nickel, Copper, HYdro Electricity..........imagine if we could keep it all.

    It certainly can't get much worse.

    I don't think Harper would like to see a referendum.

    P.S. I love Canada but if Harper is controlling it..............he'll destroy it too.

  • MUN Student
    July 01, 2010 - 20:14

    Count me in George.
    Your views are valid and have been for a long time now. It's time to shake the Canadian cobweds off Newfoundland and Labrador and start the debate.

  • Short
    July 01, 2010 - 20:14

    I'm sick of Ontario and Quebec running this country. Every single budget bows to them, handing over the majority while the remainder of Canada fights for scraps. Sure, just this week we had an Ontario MP looking to shut down a Newfoundland industry, sealing. Imagine the outrage if NL proposed a bill to shut down all auto plants in Ontario! Harper made a very telling statement before the last election, 'We don't need NL to get elected'. And it's true, there is no equal representation in this country. NL doesn't matter one bit since Ontario and Quebec have all the seats and all the power. I guess the people of this province relish the fact they can get the scraps of central Canada!

  • Neil
    July 01, 2010 - 20:13

    I hope all of Canada doesn't think that George Baker is speaking for all NL'ers. Most don't even want to admit he's from here.

  • Maurice E.
    July 01, 2010 - 20:13

    We dont need others to do us in we do it to ourselves.

    How can six Newfoundland and Labrador Liberal MPs --- who were elected to represent the interests of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, vote with --- and remain with --- a party that is supporting a federal government decision to take $1.6 billion dollars from their constituents --- constituents that need better roads, better health care, better water and sewer systems, better schools for their children --- and on and on it goes?

    It boggles my mind how they can call themselves Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. We don't need Harper to do us in --- we do it to ourselves.

    Recent events in Ottawa show that we cannot rely on so-called national political parties to stand up for Newfoundland and Labrador.

    As evidenced by the Liberal Partys refusal to stand up for Newfoundland and Labrador, so-called national parties now support each other as dictated by the needs of the region that they represent.

    The Conservatives take care of the West, the Liberals (as evidenced by the budget) take care of Ontario, and the Bloc Quebecois is taking care of Quebec.

    Who then is taking care of and who represents Newfoundland and Labrador?

    Are we content to be recipients of Stevie's vindictiveness --- or Iggy's approval for our NL members to vote in our own best interest?

    Newfoundlanders and Labradorians are more independent than that. We deserve better representation than that.

    In future, majority governments are likely to be few and far between.

    Accordingly, it is time to stop electing MPs to a party that is not willing --- substantively so --- to stand up for Newfoundland and Labrador.

    Otherwise --- we dont need others to do us in we do it to ourselves.

  • leo
    July 01, 2010 - 20:13

    I have to give George Baker credit for speaking out,after all we have been treated unfairly by Mr. Harper, as for separating i'm sure long thought would have to be given to that, then on the other hand we have been held ransom by Quebec for years reguarding transmission lines through quebec for future power, what has the Federal Government done about that. Its been an uphill battle for NL from day one.

  • Graham
    July 01, 2010 - 20:12

    Funky Monkey, the same can be said about any other country/province where greed/corruption was involved. It still happens today in Ottawa, hence this entire discussion. I think many people here realize the POTENTIAL we have as a province to successfully go it alone especially given the higher transparency rate in politics 60 years on. But I suppose you think we'd still have the exact same political systems we and the rest of Canada had 60 years ago. Time to change your negative thinking my friend, and realize time would not have left us behind. Indeed we would have, like all other places, made progress in the advancement of our civlization. It's a very normal process which exists everywhere. Show me ONE place on this planet which has been perfect from the start. But if we had remained independent, I would LOVE to see where we'd be today. But I'm sure you'd think the crowd in Sin Jahn's would still be pulling the wool over the baymen's eyes and robbing them. Think again my friend. I'm quite sure things would not be as dire as you infer.

  • Graham
    July 01, 2010 - 20:11

    Once a man is down, keep him down, has been the motto of the Feds against NL since NL joined confederation. If you look rationally at it, our years of high unemployment and transfer payments have been CAUSED by the rape of NL by Ottawa. Get rid of the resource-robbing parasite, ie Ottawa, and we'd rise to the occasion and prosper. We entered confederation with a SURPLUS despite having suffered massive manpower losses during our volunteer years fighting the wars in Europe. That says a lot. After confederation we've been kept in poverty. I wonder why that is ? No brainer - Ottawa. Some of you people do not know your NL history very well ( Nasty Nate ) and have put the cart before the horse. We've been robbed of much more than what we've ever received. If we had control of ALL our resources since confederation up to today, we'd have NEVER been on the Feds teet. The Feds have beaten us into submission and dependence - what countries do that today ? Unbelievable.


    We could separate and join a GRATEFUL country, or remain independent and after a few years develop our own industries, defence and infrastructure.


    We vote every few years to determine our leaders. Why not do the same every few years to see what the population says about our sovereignty ? Is it not even MORE important ?


    I SUPPORT SEPARATISM

  • Funky
    July 01, 2010 - 20:11

    What if this debate did go anywhere and Labrador, which is a very distinct part of the province and country, with it's own recognizable identity (as I have many friends from there and they consider themselves Labradorians and not Newfoundlanders) decided they wanted no part of separation from Canada and wanted to stay. It's about as possible as Newfoundland fighting for separation. If Labrador went it's own way, the province as we know it today would be ridiculously screwed. I don't think we recognize on the island how important (unbelievable importance the minieral and hydro assets) Labrador has meant to the rest of the province. In reality, we have been sucking Labrador dry of resources much the same way we b***h about the rest of Canada doing to our whole province.

  • Sandra
    July 01, 2010 - 20:11

    Funkley Monkey needs to read this...

    http://www.heritage.nf.ca/law/econ_impacts.html

    ...to gain perspective on NL's surplus and the Commission of Gov't in NL's economy. (wake up call Funkey Monkey)

    I definitely support separatism, otherwise we will always been dumped on because we are nothings to Ottawa.

  • AC
    July 01, 2010 - 20:11

    And Sid, there's nothing stereotypical or ignorant about my original post. Those are the facts. The notion of separation from Canada is incredibly short-sighted and precisely the kind of knee-jerk reaction that has gotten us into bad situations in the past. Churchill Falls, anyone?

  • Harper Fan
    July 01, 2010 - 20:10

    I am a stauch Conservative. I believe that the Conservative Party is the best option we CURRENTLY have. But, if a sepratist party came along, I would offer to run for it in an election. We already have the NL First Party, but we need something with money, more candidates, and higher profiles.

    Men, hurrah for our own native Isle, Newfoundland,
    Not a stranger shall hold one inch of her strand;
    Her face turns to Britain, her Back to the Gulf,
    Come near at your peril, Canadian Wolf!

  • John
    July 01, 2010 - 20:10

    Mr. Williams budget on ABC was 81K.
    Why those money were not used on better health care ?.

    I think AB is the the best motor of keeping Ottawa under control.

    This is because in Ottawa very few listen to NL.
    Sad but true.
    No party in Ottawa cares about NL.
    We are too small.

  • Ches
    July 01, 2010 - 20:10

    Bravo Mr. Baker.

    Name the party and let's move.

    If we are to survive we must either:
    -regain control of our Grand Banks within Canada
    or
    -regain control of our Grand Banks outside of Canada.

    If we fail to achieve this, we are doomed to oblivion and desolation.

  • James
    July 01, 2010 - 20:09

    Nfl go for it, do not hold back, and you will never regreat it, we in scotland have been screwed thoughtless since 1745 by that shower down south,as much as we try we canna shake them off, there just like S##T to a blanket.

  • Frank
    July 01, 2010 - 20:09

    Some posters have mentioned that lack of depth in leadership is a stumbling block to independence. The solution is education. It should be a priority for the province if it seriously decides to head down that road to independence.

    2049 seems like a good year to aim for.

  • John
    July 01, 2010 - 20:09

    Comments with a REAL name and address are worth reading; otherwise an anonymous opinion is truly worthless.

    What's everyone afraid of? Is bin Laden going to come after you?

  • Jim B
    July 01, 2010 - 20:09

    If Danny Williams said something like this, NLers would eat it up without thinking twice!

    Poor old George, no one takes him seriously. Ever.

    More seriously, comments such as these do cause one to question the calibre of individuals in the Senate (yesterday it was Mac Harb, calling for the abolishment of our seal hunt) and the fact that they really do not do much.

    Time to abolish the Senate.

  • Ex-Pat in Alberta
    July 01, 2010 - 20:09

    Mr. Baker should watch himself I won't want him to lose his plum job that he was appointed to. Maybe a campain ploy for if they ever make the upper house an elected group.
    Seperation very interesting... Free Newfoundland!!!

  • Josh
    July 01, 2010 - 20:07

    FINALLY! someone said it! .... remember this is just a mention of separatism ... not a plan or a formal movement.... but at least the idea is finally getting out there! and he is not alone in thinking this!!! alot of young people agree and i cant wait for the movement to start and the day we leave this sorry excuse of a country! .... when the movement starts, all the information will be put out for everyone to see that we will be better off on our own and all we need is a person to start the ball rolling and present the situation .... a valid person that will organize it .... if only danny would start preacing it... who knows maybe he will in a few years ... cant wait for the day we take down the maple leaf that symbolizes opression of a people and the raping of resources ... and raise the flag of independence

  • A
    July 01, 2010 - 20:07

    Congratulations to George Baker for calling it like it is, he's only telling the truth. My grandfather moved off the island about 50 years ago and it's becoming really tempting for me to move back to Newfoundland. Between economic success and a leadership that will actually fight for it's people. Don't let em kick you around, fight for what's yours.

    You could always end up like Nova Scotia, with a fiddling clown that sells us up river the first chance he gets.

  • Frank
    July 01, 2010 - 20:07

    Interesting to read all the comments!

    I don,t think I would return to Newfoundland and Labrador and run for The New Newfoundland And Labrador Democratic Party with a vision like Gilles Duceppe to break this great country in pieces. I fought for years against the seperatist in Quebec with the Federal and Provincial Liberals.

    I think the ghosts of Pierre Trudeau, Joey Smallwood and Paul Martin would never let me rest in peace if I ever supported seperatist views.

    I think we should call this new wave of politics the DGGHS ..Danny, George,Gilles, Harper syndrome. They are so confused as to what they want for Canada.

    Frank Blackwood

  • Ted
    July 01, 2010 - 20:06

    I totally agree with AC from St. John's. This place wouldn't last 5 minutes alone. Who would lead us? Just think of the clowns we had as premiers since confederation? I can just imagine the amount of corruption that would have ensued, not to mention that which has already taken place. A few oils bucks roll in and everyone get suddenly becomes patriotic and cocky by the rhetoric of a few pension seeking politicians whose only qualification is that they happened to have been the local school principal or hockey coach. Yeah, now there's something you can build a nation upon.

  • Lloyd
    July 01, 2010 - 20:05

    There have been moments I've been a fan of Mr. Baker. Some moments.

    Judging by commentary on the local call in shows (callers and certain host(s), perhaps even some government people, and even one or two comments here, I'd say he will help garner a little support for the idea in Newfoundland. Seems there is such a party in existence ready to serve that purpose?

    In Labrador, though, we have a little different problem. Our problem has been in getting fair treatment from the provincial government rather than from the Feds. Unlike the provincial government, we have no constitutionally guaranteed rights regarding resource extraction, disposition, or just returns, nor do we have any really say in the matter on how to rectify those issues so far.
    In 1948 Labradorians voted overwhelmingly at 80 plus percent to join Canada. If that number has changed, I'd say it has been upward.

  • Frank
    July 01, 2010 - 20:05

    This a cheap shot from George Baker who got brushed under the carpet some years ago because of his unrealistic visions. He articulates very well on what others think is best for Newfoundland and Labrador, not what George really has in mind.

    To talk about seperating from Canada is one of the most immature and unrealistic gestures a well respected politicians like George Baker could make. This would be like removing the bedrock of the Atlantic ocean, and letting the island of Newfoundland and Labrador sink beneath.

    You see, George can make remarks like this today as noone will sweep him under the carpet tomorrow. Newfoundlanders will never walk away from Canada

    Frank Blackwood

    **Formerly of Wesleyville.

  • John
    July 01, 2010 - 20:04

    Funy Monkey. The War created the surplus. It was not the Commission of Government. Don't you know that? And Newfoundland lost it independence NOT because of debt but because of ASSETS. The British wanted to control Newfoundland outright because of its war time value. We did not LOSE independence. It was STOLEN from us.

  • Nasty
    July 01, 2010 - 20:02

    Just a few simple questions and comments for Mr. Baker.

    You will be out your job since your services will no longer be required if Newfoundland was not a province or a part of Canada. Talk about shooting oneself in the proverbial foot.

    Just where is the province going to go? Who will we join to survive in the global scheme of things, Russia, Cuba? Where is our army, navy and air force to defend from the evil Canada and USA?

    What will be done to sustain the population? We know that we are not able to provide for ourselves due to location. We have no industry to provide an export commodity demanded by world markets.

    So, just where is this plan of yours or did Fabian Manning put you up to this on Dannys behalf?

  • Tim
    July 01, 2010 - 20:01

    Hey Sid, bet you can not wait for your GST cheques and tax returns. Oh thats right you are not part of Canada and do not want that anymore. Good for you. You are helping with our National Debt for not accepting the benefits that are given to all Canadians.

    Guess you will need a passport, work permit and VISA to enter Canada for work that you can not nor will not be able to obtain here then too :)

    Thought so. Lot more to this then you might think.

  • Sean
    July 01, 2010 - 20:01

    I'm with Baker and alot of fellow Newfoundlanders , lets get out of this crazy country we call Canada, I had to move away with my family years ago to support my family, do you think it's a better life up here than it is back home...NO it's not

    I say it's time to seperate and drop Harper like a bad habit, who needs him, Surely we would be better off on our own that we are curently. Count me in for walking in downtown Toronto holding a NL to seperate sign any day.

  • AC
    July 01, 2010 - 20:01

    Pretty embarrassing comments from Georgie here. How quickly we forget how long we, as a province, sucked the Federal government's teet--highest unemployment rate in the country, abnormally high welfare (or whatever the politically correct term is these days) rate, not to mention the endless years of receiving transfer payments as have-not province. Now that we are finally generating some revenue on our own, we have this blow-hard making us look like a bunch of ungrateful fools. Not to mention Danny running his mouth every chance he gets. We took and took and took for decades while other provinces gave. Now it's our turn the return the favour. Deal with it.

  • Funky
    July 01, 2010 - 20:01

    My facts are real because I say they are.

  • NL_Expatriate
    July 01, 2010 - 20:01

    Inform yourself
    Royal Commission on Newfoundland and Labrador's place in canada.
    http://www.exec.gov.nl.ca/royalcomm/

    Report on negotiations duress, conflict of interest leading up to Upper Churchill contract.
    http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~feehan/CF.pdf

    Quebec gets 2 Billion a year from Upper Churchill.
    http://www.thetelegram.com/index.cfm?sid=219507&sc=79

    Short history on Equalization/Atlantic Accord
    http://www.irpp.org/po/archive/mar07/courchene.pdf

    Great summary of Atlantic Accord/Equalization links.
    http://www.rantandroar.ca/accord.htm

    Video presentation on automatic extension renewal clause for Upper Churchill.
    http://www.mun.ca/harriscentre/Memorial_Presents/Churchill_Falls/churchill_falls_video.php

    Independent cost benefit analysis
    http://www.theindependent.ca/pdf/Cost_benefit_methodology.pdf

    This is just a primer it doesn't touch on many many other burning issues.

  • Funky
    July 01, 2010 - 20:00

    Graham? Are you serious? Your telling other people they know little about NL history?

    I think you need to brush up a little my friend. Newfoundland was always destitute. Yeah, we had a surplus when we joined confederation...sure. That's corrrect. But that came after years of commission of govt rule where we had an unelected group of indivduals running the country (mainly British citizens). Before the commission of govt was created (to give us a break from our own politicians) NL was basically bankrupt. We were screwed because of the greed and careless leadership we had in the country before that. Newfoundland was a sinking ship. Instead of a ruling class in Ottawa, we had a ruling class in St. John's which raped the rest of the provnice for their own benefit and the benefit of the capital city region (sound familiar?). There were no good times in NL my friend. Learn your own history before you start bashing the understanding of others.

    When people voted...outside of St. John's they voted overwhelmingly in favour of confederation. The only real opposition to confederation was in the St. John's area where those previously in power were afraid they were about to lose all their control. People voted in favour of confederation outside of St. John's because the leadership of Canada couldn't be any worse then the leadership of the ruling class in St. John's.

    If Newfoundland was meant to be a country, it would still be one. This separatism debate is a joke.

    And whoever mentioned the NLFirst Party should take a look at their webpage and actually listen to them. They're a group of clowns.

  • What a
    July 01, 2010 - 19:59

    So here is a little food for thought. For those that think you will be better off as a country on our own, answer these simple questions. Where are the practical jobs in this province? Why is it that this province boasts the highest unemployment rates in Canada when it has been considered to be a have province? Where are the sustainable jobs that were promised with the stimulus plans from both Danny and Stevie?

    Who are you going to sell iron ore to if the steel mills and auto plants are shutting down?
    Are we ready to pay higher tariffs on imports and exports to get our way?

    Lots of talk, but like normal no real plan or action from anyone to make anything more then a fuss over nothing.

    I would really like to see someone put out a little more then lip service for a change. People have offered to create employment in this province, yet the status quo remains where those given the grants and funding to do so use the lions share to fill their personal pockets with little thought to the rest of the people that need to survive.

    Once you get a plan and your act together the rest of the world just might take you seriously for a change. Till that time comes we will continue to live in poverty.

  • Winston
    July 01, 2010 - 19:59

    Iggy is finally right about something: this is ridiculous.

    What a fascinatingly disingenuous distinction Baker is trying to make: predicting something is the opposite of promoting it.

    Like someone else we all know, he wants to save Canada by discussing its breakup. Baker wants to promote Canadian unity so much that he must go on every media outlet in the entire country talking manically about separatism.

    The lavish media attention must be a real Lenten sacrifice for the good Senator.

  • danny
    July 01, 2010 - 19:59

    It is about time Newfoundlander's hear the truth about the discrimination bias diffarances concerning our well being. I have lived in almost every province, I have been asked for my visa by a government official, this its self tells me that our government had no interest in our province until they realized that we had enough natural resources that they could squander like our electricity, I think if one province could threaten to go it on their own, why do we accept our leader wanting to remove one of our own from government, other people seem to be aloud to speak out but when we do Stephen Harper want to shut us up, we worked hard to build this country and now we are being ripped of again. I have talked to many Newfoundlander's who thinks this would be the best for our province. then and only then we could be self sufficient, I have thrown this idea out to other countries that are interested in our resources. The Chinese, Europe, Indians, all have interest in our wealth and kindness. If our own government can't accept us for who we are well it is probably time we think of our own and separate from those who rob us and treat us different than the rest of Canada. Not everyone have seen this, it has only been since the internet came available to Newfoundlander and its people that we have a voice. If the government had it their way we would be shut out of every decision made in parliament. Danny Williams is like a god to us he is the only politician who speaks the truth, if we loose Danny our government will try and sell us out again, another thing the U.S.A. have hard liners who work with the federal politicians to buy up our oil, electricity an any thing they could get their hands on, we fought in a war against the enemy, so what makes us cowards when it comes to separation issues, We need to stand behind Danny Williams and his agenda to have a voice on the world market and it's decisions.. Yours Truly Daniel T. Duke Thursday March 5th. 2009 WE DO HAVE A VOICE SO STAND UP AND MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD!!!!!

  • Saucy Face
    July 01, 2010 - 19:58

    Vive Terra Nouveau Libre ... Or something like that:)

  • mercedes
    July 01, 2010 - 19:58

    This is the foolishest thing I've ever heard! Don't you realize that if we separated we would have to take Mr. williams along as king? He'd have even more power then! Power to stomp on anyone who is not his buddy! At least now we have token protection from the federal party becausy of that sad and haunting word; democracy!

  • Stewart
    July 01, 2010 - 19:58

    Plain and simple, Canada is the greatest country on earth. I am a proud citizen of Canada and a proud Newfoundlander, but talk of a separatist movement is ludicrous.
    Yes, fight for what is ours but remember we are a part of a bigger family that allows us to freely express our concerns and live in peace.
    I think the benefits of living in this country far outweigh the negatives.

  • John
    July 01, 2010 - 19:57

    This Newfoundlander living away from home says George Baker has it spot-on.

    The NEWFOUNDLAND BLOC in Ottawa is an excellent idea whose time has definitely come. As things stand today, the tenth province will never be treated fairly in this federation.

    It should be obvious to everyone that the louder the Quebec nationalists and separatists shout, the better they get treated by Ottawa.

  • Shannon
    July 01, 2010 - 19:56

    This talk is absolute nonsense. Danny Williams has really got people believing that Ottawa is the Evil Empire.

    I am no fan of Harper, and even less a fan of D.W. The former's tenure won't last much longer in its MINORITY state. When Iggy and Danny band together, quite possibly when Ig becomes PM, will George Baker - who's just looking for some attention again - and the rest of you separatists be crying to leave Canada, big bad evil Canada??

    Why doesn't George direct some of his vitriol towards Williams, architect of the ABC Campaign which saw us lose over a BILLION and a half dollars??

    Get a grip, folks. This misguided passion makes everything that much more appalling and ridiculous.

  • Cindy
    July 01, 2010 - 19:55

    Ottawa has never had respect for the people of NL (Newfoundland AND Labrador). Even after we sent all our men and boys to fight and die for Canada in the 2nd world war, which left our society in near ruins post war. Was this not the key factor in NL joining Canada initially? The losses we endured due to the war? Our population was devastated and as such, pinned all the hopes of a brighter and more prosperous future on Joey Smallwood's claim to a greater life through Confederation? What was there to think about back then? ...If we join Canada maybe we can eat 7 days a week! Well, it hasn't worked out to be that great a life because of confederation now has it? What do you think would have happened if NL had been in a healthier financial place post WW2? Joey Smallwood would have been KING!

    Let's see how much better off NL is after confederation...I will need your help...

    Please list 10 Great things NL has benefited from directly BECAUSE of confederation...

    1.

  • dennis
    July 01, 2010 - 19:55

    Interesting topic this, full of emotion. Can anyone actually put some numbers behind the claims that Canada has robbed Newfoundland of it wealth? If one were to total up how much went out and how much came in, who would win and who would lose.
    But, the question is, could Newfoundland go it alone? It has a moderate amount of natural resourses, but nothing that makes me think that a country could be run on it. Outside of that there is really very little industry and manufacturing, almost no agriculture, no banking, a very, very small tourist industry, a fishery that is in shambles, a small population spread out over a very big area, and a reasonably high debt. To argue that it has a great geographical location is a bit on the bizarre side. It is a big island stuck out in the middle of the North Atlantic with arguably some of the worst weather in the world. Beautiful, I admit, but all planes to North America fly over, the vast majority of ships pass right on by, and mostly people crossing the gulf are returning home for holidays. This hardly speaks of a great geographical location that is of enormous interest to, say the European Union as some have pointed out.

    It seems to me then, that the real issue is why Newfoundland politicians have so little influence in Ottawa. Obviously with a demographic model for determining numbers of MP's Newfoundland will not have many, but can they be more effective? Perhaps electing people who have strength of character and ideas that go beyond threatening to leave when things aren't going their way might be helpful.

    I shall look up the Newfoundland First - or whatever it is called. Sounds like fun.

  • On My Way
    July 01, 2010 - 19:55

    Count me down as a separtist...that is...If this BlocNL BS progresses and a separtist movement becomes more mainstream in NL, my family will be separating from NL - permanantly.

  • Funky
    July 01, 2010 - 19:54

    Spouting the same nonsense over and over again doesn't make it come true, no matter how much you want it too and no matter how much it helps your feeble argument.

  • NL_Expatriate
    July 01, 2010 - 19:54

    The Supreme Court of Canada basically said that the 'only' reason the off-shore could be considered to be owned by Canada is because of third-party international law. The court actually said that the status of these resources is very much in the hands of NL. They demonstrated their meaning by saying, and I paraphrase, 'not-with-standing international laws, NL brought those resources into Canada, and NL can take them back out'.

    So in response to this the Atlantic Accord compromise was reached. In that deal the rest of Canada gets to suck the teat of yet more of our resources. Harper has twice unilaterally violated that compromise agreement in order to suck a little more out of NL's share. Talk about bumming off the poor!

    It's our cake why shouldn't we be allowed to eat it?
    To expand on the simplistic cake/Grand Banks resources metaphor.

    Inform yourself
    Royal Commission on Newfoundland and Labrador's place in canada.
    http://www.exec.gov.nl.ca/royalcomm/

  • Looking
    July 01, 2010 - 19:54

    Still see no answers to the questions. Where are the jobs, where is the exports, where are the buyers? Who is going to pay for this dream?

    Where is the plan? All talk no action. Thats been and will continue to be the problem here till we get our acts together.

  • Lloyd
    July 01, 2010 - 19:52

    Paul from StJohns writes:
    As for Labrador, most people there are transplanted islanders anyway. The reason there is development there is due to the people who moved up there and did it, and they are basically the same people who live on the island. unquote.

    Most people? Nearly half the people the people in Labrador are Aboriginals.
    Many of the people are descended from people who came here directly from Europe and other parts of what is now Canada. Many, not most, or their original families are are from Newfoundland. Most of them now consider Labrador their home and native land. From my own experience and observation, many if not most of them realize the unfair treatment at the hands of the provincial government.
    Most people also realize that the LACK of development here is because WE don't get to make our own developmental decisions and suffer the losses because most of OUR resources have gone to benefit others - at the HAND of the PROVINCIAL government who has constitutional control of all land based resources.

  • Jack
    July 01, 2010 - 19:52

    What an insult to Canadians. Here is a Canadian Senator appointed to such a prestigious position advocating for separation! Go back to the open line shows and getting people riled up over the price of turnips. On the way out leave your Canadian senator salary and pension.

  • Townie
    July 01, 2010 - 19:52

    I'm behind you all the way George baker seperate the Canadian Government screwed us enough the republic of Nf Priminster Danny all the way.

  • Truman
    July 01, 2010 - 19:52

    no surplus now funkey monkey or whatever your foolish name is

  • kirby
    July 01, 2010 - 19:52

    i see this as something akin to a chest found in an attic...a BOX if you please...and many 'newfoundlings' are overjoyed at the prospects it may hold.
    as a labrador native,i am not anxious,because we know what is in the box for our Native Peoples...ORIGINAL JURISDICTION is just one issue that springs to mind.
    open it up...'newly founde'...landers.

  • Mike
    July 01, 2010 - 19:51

    If you were taking a poll of the comments above - 16 comments for / 17 comments against at this point (approx. 50% for / 50% against).

    I do believe there is a growing sentiment towards our place in Canada - now whether that justifies a separatist movement - time will tell.

  • Dumbfounded
    July 01, 2010 - 19:51

    Who is this idiot AC ?? Honestly do you really believe what your saying. Unreal the stupidity that writes on this forum.

  • AC
    July 01, 2010 - 19:51

    Jimmy, Alberta was generally against Federal 'intereference' long before the profits of the oilsands, back to when agriculture was their primary revenue source. Even during their most difficult times, during the oil collapse of the early 1980s, they still only hit 10% unemployment, and as a province have not received anywhere close to the amount of Federal money that Newfoundland has over the decades. It's not uncommon at all for profitable businesses to detest the Government due to regulation and taxation. My point is that Newfoundland has taken far too much to be suddenly spewing separation rhetoric now that we have had a couple of prosperous years.

  • John
    July 01, 2010 - 19:49

    George Baker is a fool,what more than that can I say.

  • Funky
    July 01, 2010 - 19:49

    John...if I tell people my name, people will know who I am.

  • Mike
    July 01, 2010 - 19:48

    Baker refers to Harpers vendetta against the province but strained relations with Ottawa are nothing new regardless of which party is in power. If we, or any other province, wanted to take our ball and go home every time we felt the game was being played unfairly, Canada would not exist. But Canada does exist warts and all.

    Every province has a beef with the Federal government. However, not every province wants to go it alone. Sure there are fringe elements whose sole purpose is to separate but they are viewed with contempt or indifference. The Bloc Quebecois is as good example as any.

    But Canada is a democracy and people are free to express their opinions just as George Baker has done. We can include comments from Mike Duffy, Globe and Mail editorials and infamous newfie jokes. People can say what they wish. Its a free country. But we are just as free to agree or disagree with what they say and freely express our opinions without fear of retribution.

    Eventually Harper will be gone as Prime Minister, but problems with Ottawa will remain. Our relationship is tenuous at best and in all likelihood, will continue to be that way. But that doesnt mean we have to pack up house and leave. We offer a lot to the country, and it offers a lot to us. And as proud as we are to call ourselves Newfoundlanders, we should be just as proud to call ourselves Canadians.

  • Frank
    July 01, 2010 - 19:47

    I have to agree with Neil from Newfoundland. George Baker doesn,t speak for all Newfoundlanders.

    He likes to stir up a lot of dust like a crackie having a dump on a sandpile and then runs back home with his tail between the hind legs ,begging for a reward as it didn,t pee on the carpet.

    I don't think George will have the support of our younger politicians in Ottawa today.
    Frank Blackwood

  • AC
    July 01, 2010 - 19:47

    This will be my last post on this thread, just wanted to respond to some of the laughable claims about not knowing history. We may have entered into Confederation in 1949 with a surplus, but what didn't we have? Well, let's see... 50% of the population had no electricity. No connecting highway system. No child allowances, extremely high unemployment, poor health care and virtually no social assistance programs. It's a give and take scenario. They benefitted from our natural resources and we benefitted from their infrastructure improvements and social programs. It's easy to blame Ottawa for everything, but if we'd had one or two even HALF capable premiers over the years, who knows where we'd be?

  • Cathy
    July 01, 2010 - 19:46

    In the 60 years since confederation, despite having lost most of our men during the wars, we still had a surplus like another commenter mentioned. If we had stayed independent, we would have developed all of our own infrastructure WITHOUT outside so-called help. To AC, around confederation (1949 just after WW2), the whole world had high unemployment, basically NO social assistance programs and poor health care. As a matter of fact, in case you haven't noticed, we STILL have poor health care, poor social assistance programs and moderately high unemployment, and we're now set to lose even more thanks to the hostililty of our Prime Minister towards us. If we had control over our own resources, we would have been much further ahead than we are right now. Try and refute that. Talk sense man.

  • Jimmy
    July 01, 2010 - 19:46

    To AC from St. John's: Point taken. Perhaps I should take a closer look at Canadian history.

  • Barry
    July 01, 2010 - 19:45

    Robert if you dont like it move to Quebec you would fit right in. thats Dannys next plan. He will become emperor of Quebec and Newfoundland.

  • Mark
    July 01, 2010 - 19:45

    Cathy - 'we would have developed all of our own infrastructure'?

    With what? Seriously - every bit of infrastructure was built by the British who were broke and tired of paying for us, and in later years by the temporary military presence. After Confederation, billions flowed from Ottawa to get our roads, schools and hospitals up to snuff. Without this money, dear Cathy, please tell me who the heck would have built our infrastruture? The fish merchants? Not bloody likely.

    Are there problems in our federation? Absolutely. But anyone who believes Newfoundland would have been better off on its own after 1949 needs to see a doctor.

  • Tony
    July 01, 2010 - 19:45

    Seems like George has hurt Canada's feelings.

    I'm surprised that it has taken this long for someone in his position to say it since he's only saying what most here are thinking anyway. AND yes all you lCanada lovers, I feel that I am speaking for the very patient and silent majority within Newfoundland and Labrador. It's time for all of us to reconsider this so called democracy called Canada.

    Good for you George. Nice to see someone here who's not afraid to speak the truth. Time for others to follow his lead.

  • Common Sense
    July 01, 2010 - 19:45

    For those of you who believe NL would be better off as its own state, let me just say two things

    1 - MHA Spending Scandal - you think that was bad, imagine what would it be like then, you would have every politician scrambling to steal every dollar they could get their hands on

    2 - Crap Health System becomes even crappier.

    Yeah, go separatism!!!! Whatever.

    Nuff Said

  • Paul
    July 01, 2010 - 19:45

    Great to see how many people have had enough and really look at separation as a viable option. Too bad people like AC don't know anything about history. He says we've received so much, but fails to understand that we have given more than we've ever received and that continues today.

    As for others who wonder who we will link up with, the answer in no one. We'll be fine by ourselves.

    As for Labrador, most people there are transplanted islanders anyway. The reason there is development there is due to the people who moved up there and did it, and they are basically the same people who live on the island. It's just a bit hard to provide the infrastructure to such a large place with such a small population. But it seems to progressing gradually as I've seen in my time up there recently. If we had been our own country I don't think Labrador would now be underdeveloped. We'd have loads of Upper Churchill bucks, would be shipping out steel or cars, not raw ore, fueled by Churchill power, access to forests able to be provided. The fact that the entire province has been impoverished by Canada means it's hard to provide proper service easily and the smaller and more distant populations are more likely to suffer most. But we still need to stick together.

  • Jesse
    July 01, 2010 - 19:44

    As a Labradorian, I find Newfoundland Separatism funny. Possibly because of the assumption that Labradorians would want to go too.

    And the kvetching about the federal government doing things to Newfoundland, and ignoring that the provincial government does the same to Labrador. Like the plan to ignore every single community on the coast of Labrador should the Lower Churchill project ever finish and the power routed to the island. And the hand wringing over how running those power lines through a precious park in Newfoundland will destroy its scenic beauty (while ignoring what it will do to the landscape of Labrador).

    Those who live in glass houses with bongs lying around shouldn't whine about their neighbour's drinking habits.

  • Gerry
    July 01, 2010 - 19:44

    I have to laugh about the PC member getting offended by George Baker , and wanting him fired , and saying we cant form a seperatist group, what does he think Quebec is??? This is the only country in the world that would allow a sitting party whose soul purpose is to seperate and their own interest looked after,anywhere else they would be outlawed.In the meen time George Baker is right ,i'am teaching my son about politics and how we've been treated by Ottawa, If i had my way we would leave now , Think the USA wouldn't want us?? We've been held down long enough Stevie!!!

  • Jimmy
    July 01, 2010 - 19:44

    To AC from St. John's: Look at your Canadian history. Alberta was once a have-not province. And see how quickly they tried to turn on Confederation when the oil sands money started to pad the accounts. Even the current prime minister once advocated a 'firewall' to isolate Alberta from the rest of Canada.

  • NL_Expatriate
    July 01, 2010 - 19:44

    Equality or Exit!

  • Willy
    July 01, 2010 - 19:43

    I'm a bit surprised by Sean Hurleys comment about it being a better life in NL than he's able to find in Brampton . Would you rather have your family on Pogey, or maybe you miss your Skidoo or the Quad . Maybe you miss loafing around on the Wharf with your hands in your pockets complaining why your cheque isn't in the mail yet . My friend , that's your opinion and you're entitled to it , but don't include me and the thousands of others who left for a better life . I wouldn't trade my position for anything . Yep , i retired at 55 and still live in Ontario . I've got what i need and am satisfied .

  • 2cents
    July 01, 2010 - 19:43

    Sepratisim is always in the back of many people's heads here in this province. I myself would support a sepratist party. Why is it ok for Quebec to have a Bloc Quebcois but not Newfoundland and Labrador? Frankly I am sick and tired of the double standards that the present ruling federal party hold so near and dear.

  • Roxanne
    July 01, 2010 - 19:43

    I am ashamed to be a Canadian living in Newfoundland, I would rather be called an American, even when the likes of Bush was President.

    Our only hope is we take some stand and maybe Baker is right, a NL Bloc may be the way to go. I would gladly give up my $30 GST to have my Newfoundland dignity back.

    George Baker, if you want to do this I think you will have a following, and a huge one. We are tired of being the laughing stock of Canada.

    Lets see whose resources would suffer the most if we pulled out of Canada.

  • Michael
    July 01, 2010 - 19:43

    Just because we would not be a part of Canada does not mean that we would have to be desolate. Due to our resources, econemy and geographic location we would be very attractive to the European Union and the U.S.

    We will never be treated like equals in Canada because we don't have enough votes and we don't share the same needs as the majority of Canadian provinces. To stay in power, politicians need to please the majority. Unfortunately, we will never be the majority.