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| Last updated at 8:37 AM on 02/07/09 |
Double standard 
The Telegram
It's a good point, and one that's hard to address: why is it that when 130 paper mill workers get laid off at Corner Brook Pulp and Paper on June 24, they get immediate reaction from the government, but when thousands of fisheries workers watch their fishing futures evaporate, there isn't the same reaction?
The paper workers got a full-court ministerial press: the moment the 130 layoffs were announced, not only Premier Danny Williams, but Natural Resources Minister Kathy Dunderdale, Human Resources Minister Susan Sullivan and Justice Minister Tom Marshall were all on the plane to meet with the workers' union that very afternoon. Heck, the news release had the names of a record-breaking five separate media staffers to contact on the bottom.
Not so with fisheries workers. When fisheries workers occupied a government building in St. John's on Monday, Williams was in Europe on what is arguably a mission with only limited possibilities for demonstrable success. (Williams is talking to European Union officials about the already-done-deal of the EU seal ban, and about Canada-EU trade negotiations, where the EU has already said they deal with national governments, not individual regional ones.)
Fisheries Minister Tom Hedderson was in Houston, and the only minister available to meet with the group was Kathy Dunderdale - but she'd only meet with the group if they agreed first to leave the building.
That's a very different response for workers in a very similar circumstance.
Now, it's true that fisheries workers are far more dispersed across the province, and meeting with those who are the most affected is complex.
But with regards to just the shrimp fishery, it's estimated that 1,000 people will lose direct employment on the Northern Peninsula alone, a number that quite simply dwarfs the 130 laid off in Corner Brook.
And that's only half of the issue.
Both the downturns in fisheries and in pulp and paper are the result of global issues far beyond this province's borders.
Neither of them is an easy or quick fix for a provincial government, no matter how well it's doing in the oilpatch.
But while pulp and paper workers get attention and an invite to meet in the premier's Corner Brook office, fisheries workers get asked to leave.
You can also argue that pulp and paper workers have a distinct advantage over fisheries workers: first of all, they've been the recipients of full-time pay (extremely healthy pay at that, by this province's standards) and pensions that most fisheries workers would be goggle-eyed over. They've had those jobs, year in and year out, for the length of their careers with Corner Brook Pulp and Paper - they haven't been seasonal employees working hand-to-mouth from fishing season to fishing season.
Second, in many instances, the skills that mill workers have are far more transferable: it's not necessarily the case now, but when the Stephenville mill closed, employers came looking for the experienced employees AbitibiBowater was shedding.
No one's coming to town offering jobs and hiring away shrimp plant workers in St. Anthony or St. Joseph's. It's hard to explain why no one in government seems to be in a rush to talk to them, either.
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02/07/09
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SickOf FisherpersonsComplaning from NL writes: The reason is probably that they are sick and tired of having to go deal with the fishpersons.
Every time you turn around they are occupying buildings demanding meetings to save their arses and give them more EI benefits
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 8:56 AM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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Chris from NL writes: To the editorialist:
Now, now. No need for the pessimistism, negativity and crap. You may end up getting a long distance call later today.
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 9:03 AM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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Davd from St. John's, NL writes: Personally, I don't think the government should be wasting time or money on either group. However, with that being said, I tend to agree with SickOf FisherpersonsComplaning - the fishery bunch have been whining and complaining for decades and everyone is sick of them, sort of like the boy who cried wolf. The mill workers are more of a nevelty although if they keep it up, they'll fit right in with the fishery.
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 9:27 AM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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Bayman from NL writes: I thought the news was supposed to be unbiased. Wow.
The mill workers didn't exactly march on Confederation building, bawling and screaming for attention. They had a civilized meeting.
Not the case with McCurdy. The only pictures I ever see of that guy is with his mouth open, enlarged adams apple bouncing around, shooting his mouth off.
DATS RIGHT B'Y, DE GOVERNMENT OWES ME 'CAUSE I ONLY WORKS 3 MONTHS A YEAR, AND NOW D'ECONOMY'S DOWN, SO DE GOVERNMENT BETTER GIMME MONEY SO I CAN SIT ON ME AR$E JUST LIKE I DOES DE REST OF DE YEAR.
Please.
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 9:34 AM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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stop the whining from Mount Peal, NL writes: The first paragraph of this editorial turns my stomach....have you forgotten about the moritorium which paid fisherpeople to stay home and do nothing for 10 years and correct me if I am wrong but wasn't schooling and upgrading paid for as well, why didn't the fisherpeople take advantage of that and do some type of trade, they had to know the fishery was dying.
Its time for the fisherpeople stop their whining and get on with their lives.
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 9:41 AM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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I m okay, Jack from NL writes: Bring back the workhouses and public beatings for these people. Not a cent of MY tax money! What tiny minds we have here.
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 9:44 AM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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Jim Combden from Badger's Quay, NL writes: Editorial hits the mark. Williams and gang responded to the West Coast because that's Danny's territory, (district). Fishers, as you say are in every cove and inlet, and in many cases they may not be well organized. It's difficult to find articulate spokespersons, but there are excellent ones in the Fisheries' bldg. They have determination and grit, and I hope they stay until the 'cows come home'. Failure to meet with the fishers graphically illustrates what Williams thinks of rural areas. Has the premier been in Bonavista Bay, Trinity Bay, on Northern Pen., South Coast since the last election. Without oil dollars to keep him popular, he'd rank very low. Hang tough fishers.
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 9:47 AM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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Magoo from NL writes: I'm generally astonished at the lack of comprehension most people seem to have.
Do any of you eat fish on a regular basis? Fish sticks perhaps? scallops at a fancy dinner?
Evaluate the price you pay for these commodities...now take a look at what fisherpeople are getting paid for the raw product.
Most fisherpeople would just like to be treated fairly. Unfortunately it is because of the contempt of the government, and their fellow Newfoundlanders (such as many of you) that are unable to get that treatment. Perhaps they do come off as whiney...I would whine too, if I felt forsaken by my government and comrades.
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 9:59 AM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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DB from NL writes: I have to agree with stop the whining from Mt Pearl.I use to work in a crab/fish plant back when the fishery closed down in the early 90's and the was lots of money going around to support fisher people back then how soon we all forget.I was one of the intellegent people to get the h%ll out while the going was good.I know for a fact that their was people making more on the moritorium back then for sitting home then from what they use to make fishing.So where do this mornon get off saying there has never been the same reaction for fisher people cracks me up.All I can say is you got all you toys sell them to survive.
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 10:07 AM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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Rick from Mt. Pearl, NL writes: It is unbelievable that we are supposed to stop the world for another Fisheries Crisis . I had family members on the South West Coast that sold their license and nets back in the late 80's:the reason was lack of fish. We have been through the TAGS days and it was hoped that we would reduce the number of fisherpersons and plants in NL but I learned a few years ago that this did not workd as intended. There are more than 80 plants still operating in NL and there are many people still fishing. If any money goes to these people, yet again, please make the people who are still in this industry that received any form of TAGS and any other form of government buyout ineligible. I worked for a company that closed its doors a few years ago and the only thing I recieved was EI and the same should go for the Forestry and Fishing Industires. What happened to fairness and equality in this province?
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 10:18 AM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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The Unicorn from NL writes: No discussion I've seen has addressed the importance of the fishery as a food source to the overall human population. Alberta and Saskatchewan are experiencing serious drought problems this year. What happens when it's no longer feasible for farmers to farm? Will we retrain those workers for the oil industry as well?
We can talk about downturns in other industries all we want. When an industry so basic to our survival is no longer feasible, we may be in real trouble - We can't survive by eating oil. Who is going to provide the world's food?
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 10:36 AM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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Henry from nl writes: Well said Sick of Fisherperson Complaining.
Do what the rest of have to do, go find other work.
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 10:45 AM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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Steve from nl writes: To Unicorn - since when is fish the only food we eat.
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 10:48 AM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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Bayman from NL writes: Magoo,
That's certainly a valid point about the pricing issue. There is a massive difference between what we pay to eat Scallop appetizers followed by a halibut main course at a fancy restaurant, and what fishermen receive for their hauls. There's even a huge difference between what you pay at Sobey's/Dominion for seafood (especially fresh seafood) and what the fishermen are paid for what's in their nets. This is a big problem. It is unfair that fishermen are compensated so poorly.
The thing is, is that government has nothing to do with setting fish prices. Yet some fishermen are protesting to government to do something about it, in a very inappropriate way. The problem goes back to the global economic recession.
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 10:56 AM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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Eugene from Town, Newfoundland writes: Most posters here seem to not see the point being made (and those points not made) by this editorial: the lack of responsiveness that this government has had toward issues in the various fisheries. Seems that Messr Williams et al are more than happy to show up, en masse, to the aid of the premier's constituents who have a concrete, contractual, relationship with their employer. The fishers have been struggling to wrest some control of prices from processors with no input from a premier who is loathe to 'interfere with the market' (something that Williams said about pricing in the insurance industry prior to his becoming premier). Because of this province's neglect of this situation, they are giving tacit approval to the processors stance that if their price demands are not met there won't be a fishery. When all those posters who applaud the petro-wealth realize that you can't eat oil or dollars it may be too late. While I agree that demanding benefits not afforded to others in this province is a bit much, I also regret the de-emphasis that has been put on our number one resource and the people who choose to continue to pursue a traditional way of life despite the material riches available to them in the petro-fields. Premier Williams will be happy to know that only commercial interests (with their downward pressure on wages/commodity prices) will emerge triumphant and the once productive communities dotting our coast will be further pushed along the road to becoming ghost towns. I'm guessing that mind-set has infected most people in this province also, sad!
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 11:02 AM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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Diane from Con Bay South, NL writes: The fishers will never receive compassion from me. They have their big boats, fancy trucks, tax-free income, underground sales, EI for most of the year, putting their own relatives on payroll and EI, reports very little net income, screams and hollers to get their own way. Enough already. Fisherpersons, if you do not like the way the fishery is going, well go out and get a new job. We cannot keep handing out monies to you. It is time to face reality, and stop looking for the handouts because you are making thousands and thousands of money on your catches, setting up all your family members on EI (and the top stamp) and still you complain.
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 11:04 AM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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Poor Fisherman from The Woods writes: I am an office worker for a small business making not much more than minimum wage. I have just the same amount of bills to pay as any mill worker or fishermen, except for their million dollar boats and expensive toys like ski-doos, cabins, or trikes. If the compnay I work for goes bottom up, the government won't help me. But, the government continues to throw money at the fishermen, mill workers, etc... Then, when they don't get a big enough piece of the glorfied welfare program called government assistance they protest. It makes me sick. I am tired of hearing from them, the government is tired of hearing from them, everyone except news reporters keeping themselves in a job is tired of hearing fom them. At least, the mill workers had a very slightly different message than give me, give me, give me.
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 12:04 PM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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The Unicorn from NL writes: @ Steve from Nl: I'm afraid you've read something into my comment that wasn't there. Nowhere did I say fish was the only food we eat. It does however, make up a larger portion of our population's diet than the crow you have to eat.
Suppose for a minute that fisherman take the advice given by many commentators here today. We can retrain most of them for careers in other jobs, and those that for some reason or another can't be retrained, we'll set them up on social assistance.
Now suppose the farmers and meat producing workers face the prospect that their futures are evaporating because of the global recession. Can we suggest the same route for them to follow?
We would expect there wouldn't be many office workers at their posts should these food industry people and our governments take the advice given in some of the previous comments.
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 12:53 PM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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Bones II from nl writes: If the fishery is so important to NL and it's economy, why are the fishermen the only one's feeling the effects? McCurdy is still getting paid, isn't he? That's what the FFAW cares about. The fishermen are being led down a dead ended, one-way street by their union. I say this because there are no ideas, no plans, and no suggestions being made by these so-called experts beyond the never ending, give us some cash to get over the hump.....again. This occupation is for media attention and nothing but, the union has no other idea what to do if they can't depend on government. Hint: Depend on fish!
All you fishermen who want to fish....do it! Market your own fresh fish and you guys might even be surprised at how successful it is. NL'ers want fresh fish. Imported product sells at high prices and none of it is rotting on the shelves! There's a fish restaurant every 10 feet ffs, where do they get their fish?
I don't get it, I buy fish all the time. I pay top dollar for it too! Personally, I have no problem buying it from a fisherman, even for the same price. The product is fresher, tastier, and portions tend to be on the generous side, for the most part.
Maybe it's because individuals, like me, don't purchase 1000's of lbs at a time? Maybe it's the extra work marketing the stuff? Maybe it's the travel involved after fishing all day? What is it that makes fishermen NOT fish and wait for a handout as opposed to fishing and selling their own catch? The money is being paid for the product....just NOT to the fishermen. This is where the problem lies. Processors are just going to import it and make the profit that way. Local fishermen need to use their 'Local Advantage' as the marketing giant it can be. The FFAW is not going to be a help here.....at all.
All this talk makes me badly want fish for supper, lol.
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 1:39 PM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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DeeBee from NF writes: I can understand the point in this editorial. It seems that many people posting comments here do not. Regardless of the amount of perceived 'whining' by fisherfolk in this province, it is an industry that, if the provincial government had opened its collective eyes years ago, could have been and still could be a viable one if it were managed properly. Unfortunately, the fishery off the coast of Newfoundland (and Atlantic Canada in general) has long been used as a bargaining chip with the U.S. and E.U. We have been giving our resource away in exchange for the RIGHT to sell other Canadian products in foreign countries ever since the British decided they didn't want to be bothered with us anymore. It's easy to sit there and say fisheries workers are nothing but a bunch of whiners looking for handouts, but the truth is they have been watching their livelihood dwindling away for much longer than the early '90s. This province was founded on the strength of the fishery. Try to remember that the next time you're giving away your left arm at Sobeys for a piece of 'fresh' cod or your first-born for a piece of halibut at your local fancy restaurant. Had the seafood been processed locally, it probably wouldn't cost as much...or, if it did, the people of this province would be the ones making the money and spending the majority of it here. The great & powerful CrOZ spearheaded the old bait & switch in the '90s and succeeded in doing what Joey could not: get the majority of Newfoundlanders out of the fishery so Canada could give it away to others. Read up on your Newfoundland history, people...maybe then you'll understand why Danny & da b'ys don't want to meet with fisheries representatives - namely, decades of political underhandedness. It's hard to look someone in the eye after they're screwed out of a way of life, isn't it? Even if the Williams government isn't directly responsible for the current state of affairs, they're not exactly restoring some dignity to people in this industry or providing a clear way for the fishery to continue, are they? Fisherpeople have become the second-class citizen in this province and it is really, REALLY wrong. Unlike the oil biz, the fishery could be a sustainable industry if it was managed properly. Too bad the powers that be (both federal & provincial) would rather let the Grand Banks be raped by strangers than bring some quality of life back to this area. No wonder the rest of the world looks at us as 'dumb Newfoundlanders'...
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 2:19 PM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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Joseph from The Other Bay, NL writes: Escuse me. But these fisherpeople already GOT their package. Back in the early 1990's, remember?
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 2:58 PM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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Wayne from NL writes: Double standard? The only thing I see is the fisherman's standard respons: whine. Double-time whine.
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 3:03 PM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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Fed Up from Newfoundland Labrador writes: Once again the telegram chooses to bash the government of this province in lieu of making sensible arguments. Aside from the fact that the fishery is a federal and not a provincial responsibility, which the editorial in fact points out in a somewhat confusing contradiction, there are some other glaring ommissions that clearly show the bias or ignorance of the editorial. First, how is it similar when workers are suddenly thrown out of work, as opposed to workers who are refusing to work because they say it is financially unfeaseable for them to do so? This is not to say that the fish harvesters are not stating the truth, simply that it is not the same situation.
Also overlooked is the fact that workers in Central Newfoundland were also aided, in a riding that is not the premier's: Oh wait, you do recognize that in your second last paragraph, however again in contradictory fashion, arguing they can find other work because they have a viable trade... Or do they? Clarify please? In any event, I fail to understand your cheap shot at workers who stayed in school and got a trade as opposed to dropping out early and joining an unsustainable industry.
Then you take a shot at these workers because they actually worked year round! Imagine that! Worked year round and paid taxes year round! In my books, that is justification for assistance. Fish harvesters get annual assistance from the federal government in many ways, most obviously thorough Employment Insurance benefits, which are considered a subsidy under NAFTA rules. Giving them even more is not only unfair to people who work year round; it solves nothing longterm. The TAGGS program was supposed to encourage people to get out of the fishery, and clearly that failed. We need tough love measures now to correct a serious over-employment factor in an unsustainable industry. Your editorial may go over well with the fish harvesters and plant workers, but it doesn't make any sense to educated year round tax payers.
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 3:27 PM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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Eugene from Town, Newfoundland writes: DeeBee, for one, is someone who can see past his/her own nose. Add to your list the fact that the provincial government were complicit in awarding licenses to processors (can anyone say Barry Group/Clearwater) who whisked locally caught product to another jurisdiction (N.S./New England) for value-added processing. Danny & his bunch believe that wealth should only accrue to the 'captains of industry'....us worker ants can 'eat cake' in their opinions.
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 3:38 PM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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Eugene from Town, Newfoundland writes: To: Fed Up, as one year-round taxpayer who is not part of the fishery, I ask what are you fed-up with? Surely not the bounty from our oceans! I, for one, am fed up by a government that spends with abandon in one area while playing the 'market economics' card in another. We, as a province, are so heavily invested in the oild industry ($228 million to nalcor this year and they want another $600million next year) we don't seem to value anything that isn't black, and surely not food production. We know that in a world that is quickly running out of petrol that building sustainable local food producing industries is becoming more and more important. The Williams government is intent on showing that having its collective head buried in the sand is the best way to deal with people with this 'pessimistic' point of view.
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 3:45 PM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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Joanne Thompson from Body Break, NL writes: I laugh at people's perspective. When the Hebron deal was announced, everyone selling a house thought they had an oil field in their backyard, asking ridiculous prices. The fisherman think fish is the only food in the world. Stop being so pompous & rightous, if another fish was never caught I would still be eating healthy & well. If the fish industry goes tomorrow we will still live, and with alot less whining.
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 4:03 PM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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The Unicorn from NL writes: What will Joanne be eating when a crisis hits the farming and meat industries because it's no longer feasible to continue farming or raising animals for food? Will she still be eating healthy? We should all hope neither of these industries goes tomorrow, just for Joanne's sake.
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 4:50 PM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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Nota Tory from Plant Cove, NewfoundlandplantLabrador writes: Funny thing.
So many people saying the same thing.
Almost like they were organized.
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 4:56 PM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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DeeBee from NF writes: @ Eugene - There ARE fish off the coast of Newfoundland. Imagine that! LOL! There used to be a lot more. My argument has always been, how come Newfoundlanders - the people who live here - aren't the ones allowed to catch them or make a sustainable living off those fish? How come foreign factory fishery boats get to take the fish off of our shores elsewhere, process it & sell it back to us at outrageous markup while the people who LIVE HERE are classed as whiners and looked at as sponging off the 'year-round taxpayers'? The people on those boats offshore from other countries are making a living at it - otherwise, they wouldn't be coming from Spain and Russia and Portugal to take their quotas (and more)... why are Newfoundland fishermen the bad guys in all of this? If it's because of the union involvement, maybe there is an argument... but as you can see, the government is finished helping these people out. For the record, I'm not in the industry... I grew up in St. John's. But I had a lot of exposure to the fishing scene when I was a boy visiting with my relatives, who were involved in it. It was a sad day for Newfoundland when the moratorium was announced for the fishery. I really wish people today could look past their own points of view and see how much Newfoundland has lost because of it... not JUST from a cultural perspective, but the sheer numbers of people (men especially) who have left the province to find work and will in all likelihood not return to raise their families. Now people put their hopes in oil... as if that's going to last forever. It's laughable when you think about it. Good ol' Newfie politicians, b'y! Pullin' the wool over everyone's eyes again... with a nod 'n a wink...
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 5:00 PM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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Eugene from Town, Newfoundland writes: Hey, DeeBee: agree pretty whole heartedly with your observations. Also, raised in town visited my fisher relatives on weekends, but my father had an adjacent relationship to the fishery and my opinions are informed by what he observed (though we don't always see eye2eye). The sheer callousness that all Newfoundlanders have been treated with (eg. confiscation of boats, cars; regulated food fishery) by DFO coupled with the fact that our maritime neighbours aren't hampered thusly is mind-boggling. We can be arrested for casting a line off a wharf?!? This all smacks of the modern (post-modern?) movement toward commercialization/commodification of all aspects of productions. What will they think of next, we won't be able to pick berries unless we are a licensed commercial concern? Not to sound all 20th century but we are seeing a battle of philosophies/class struggle coming home, the only thing is that outside of stakeholders (eg. the fishers, loggers) we aren't seeing very much a struggle against the regimen these so-called new 'market realities' are supposedly imposing on us. As for politicos in sheeps clothing, same old, same old. Cheers.
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| Posted 02/07/2009 at 9:14 PM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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Andrew from Newfoundland writes: The fisherpersons? They have been getting handouts since the begining of time I believe. I am sick of listening to them. It is one bail out after another. I think the Fisheries College now offers courses, Sit-in 101 and Have Your Neighbour Feed You 102. Hey, if you can't make a living fishing go do something else like all others have to do, stop the whinning.
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| Posted 03/07/2009 at 12:16 AM | Alert an Editor | Link to comment |
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